Swiss Arms rifles being examined for reclassification?

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J996 great letter only I would advise remove mention of the sentence with the converted auto.:rey2
Someone stated that the RCMP were already investigating reclassification. Let the oneness fall on them why they disturbed the applecart.

Nine letters sent off yesterday already.
Put the pressure on, and let them know all this can be made irrelevant by reversing the Prohibition Order in Council against the SG550.b:

CSC and TSE JR, I appreciate the facts and the taking of emotions completely out of this.
CA issue is an irrelevant sideshow that can be sorted out eventually.
Number One, no blame or finger pointing. There is too much at stake here.f:P:2:

Number Two, keep working away with who you need to in order to ensure that this does not get to the point of becoming a variant.
Cooperate in your efforts if need be, use those willing to help. CSSA, NFA, or us here. Only ask.

Lastly, in cooperation, update us with facts. :ang3
Have each other or even a third party edit and confirm for you if need be, but don't leave us in the dark.

I seriously believe this probably started way back with the SAPR submission and a poorly edited advertising mentioning a 550.
Grasping at straws, I have no doubt the RCiMPs worked their way backwards with a goal to reclassify. Eighteen months is about the right timeline.
If they aquired a 540, a 542 and a 550 for comparison, they had a plan and an int3ention to reclassify in place all along.:rolleyes:
So what will be next? Oh yeah the Kriss, they already gave that away.
 
J996 - I would point out that the Swiss Arms rifles you are talking about, that have been for sale in Canada for the last 12 years as Non-Restricted, are the Green and Black Special specifically. The rest of them, the CQB and Carbine are Restricted rifles. It's a tad misleading to say that they all have been NR for 12 years, but it's accurate to say that the RCMP is looking at prohibiting them all however.
 
MikeyT said:
No.

Although we have long feared the RCMP has an agenda of incremental re-classification of semi-automatic sporting rifles to restricted or prohibited...
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How can you be so sure? This is T97A prohib all over again.

The RCMP mistakenly classify a firearm as non-res (for whatever reason). Somehow, somewhere down the line (12 years later, in this case), they realize their mistake and (potentially) reclassify it as prohibited.

How many of the hundreds of makes and models of firearms over the past 2 decades are ticking time bombs waiting to go off in a similar manner, all because of how ridiculous this system is?

Furthermore, the legislation defining the classification requirements are so ambiguous - depending on the day, you might have a different interpretation. Furthermore, even with the so-called saviors from the Conservatives, no material changes to the legislation have been made to prevent this from happening now or in the future.

That this very scenario unfolded the way it did underscores just how screwed up this system is. That it did with the specific rifle involved shows it could happen to almost ANY gun.
 
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harbl_the_cat said:
How can you be so sure? This is T97A prohib all over again.

The RCMP mistakenly classify a firearm as non-res. Somehow, somewhere down the line (12 years later, in this case), they realize their mistake and ban it.

How many of the hundreds of makes and models of firearms are ticking time bombs waiting to go off in a similar manner?

Furthermore, the legislation defining the classification requirements are so ambiguous - depending on the day, you might have a different interpretation.

That this very scenario unfolded the way it did underscores just how screwed up this system is.
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Those are fair points harbl; I didn't mean to imply the RCMP doesn't still want to re-classify all the go fast rifles, only that this case in particular didn't come from the RCMP without an external motivator. I also agree that a loss in this case opens us up to more bad news down the road.
 
Ben L and lanwngnome: I made the adjustments, good points thanks. I'm off to the post office.
 
MikeyT said:
Those are fair points harbl; I didn't mean to imply the RCMP doesn't still want to re-classify all the go fast rifles, only that this case in particular didn't come from the RCMP without an external motivator. I also agree that a loss in this case opens us up to more bad news down the road.
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Importing businesses deal with the RCMP all the time. They HAVE to.

There will always be "external motivators" that can trigger poo-storms like this.

I'm just angry that everyone in this marketplace blames the businesses or each other when the real problem is the system is setup by design to lead to these kinds of outcomes.

I'm sick and tired of being under the thumb of this kind of legalistic fascism. There is no reforming this system by begging the government to change things. It's a waste of time and energy.

I all along say exploiting the system's obvious flaws and legal loop holes against it IN A LEGAL, PASSIVE WAY is the best way to bring about it's collapse. This could potentially be the most influential way to assert change.

With the LGR gone, like I said before, there's no way for the government to know what non-res guns you have without them working hard to find out. The very notion of confiscation and prohibition is interconnected to the idea of registration. If you have nothing registered to you, you have the grounds to passively resist confiscation and prohibition.

I don't know why so many people are trapped in the mindset that they must voluntarily surrender what is rightfully just because the government says they must.

Nonsense remarks like "You're a criminal" is nonsense and fundamentally untrue. The system may be setup and run to make you think to the contrary - but if there is a shred of truth to the assertion that this is a free society, you are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Only slaves presuppose they are guilty of a crime before it has been actually proven.
 
TV-PressPass said:
I tried to make it as digestible as possible in my write-up.

To be clear: There is no investigation before the end of the month. Only a window for retailers to submit documentation. At the end of the month an investigation might begin. At that point we can start asking for information and updates.
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Just a little precision for the un-aware, about this picture:

Converted-Auto-2.jpg


I suppose that what is to be noticed is the grossly patched/riveted third notch on the safety selector. Or is there other details to notice ?
 
^^^^^

That is what I meant by something clearly unusual about the C/A guns. I mean you'd have to be blind not to see that. If JR was sitting on that and thinking the other guys guns were the bad ones... Man I don't know what to say.
 
Here is my letter I wrote to my local MP, I used some parts from your other letters and added some of my own. This was my first letter to an MP. Lets all do this and get changes done.


Dear Mr. Ron Cannan,

It has come to my attention that the FRT# has been pulled for the Swiss Arms family of firearms and the Kriss Vector. This action means that the legal transfer (sale) of these firearms is now on hold indefinitely, pending the ‘review’ underway at the RCMP’s Firearms Lab. It is important to note, both of these types of firearms have been legally owned in Canada for years with no issue.
Twelve years later the RCMP lab realizes that they may have made a mistake and plan to reclassify this firearm from Non-Restricted to Prohibited overnight. This means that regardless of the fact that none of these have ever been converted to full auto by a civilian and probably never used in a criminal act, that the legal gun owners who spent thousands of dollars on these will be a criminal if they don't buckle to the pressure of the RCMP and hand their firearms in.

This is not the first time this has happened in Canada, which means that unless we put a stop to the all powerful RCMP it WILL happen again. Whether you are a firearm supporter or not, you should be concerned by the actions that are taking place without a any resistance. How would you feel if you woke up to find out that your families vehicle had been deemed illegal and that you were being forced to hand it over to be crushed, or face jail time? If they can do it to one thing, they can do it to another.

I would like to implore you to do the right thing, rewrite Canada’s Firearms Act from a FAIR and COMMON SENSE perspective! Remove the RCMP’s ability to arbitrarily reclassify firearms and confiscate property from law abiding citizens! Remove the arbitrary and burdensome magazine limitations & Authorizations To Transport. Re-examine Firearms Classifications, whereby firearms were routinely prohibited by looks or by being deemed a variant of another previously prohibited firearm. All of these laws only cripple those who follow them, and that is the law abiding Canadian citizens who own firearms. It does not stop or even slow down the criminals who are using ILLEGAL firearms to commit criminal acts, they take no thought to the silly laws of legal magazine capacity, or safe transport of a firearm. Let's stand together and stand up and make the changes necessary to make this a free country again!
Thanks for your consideration,
Matt F.
 
you will need to prime the MPs on what an FRT is and why it is important.

I think the CSSA or NFA have recent newsletters with some details you could borrow
 
Here's some news. Has anyone tried to transfer a restricted Swiss Arms recently?

The RCMP has replied to one of my question submissions from earlier in the week.

1) Can you confirm that the Canadian Firearms Program inspected 3 SAN rifles with the serial numbers ESF9116, ESF74361, and ESF73096?

"The CFP can confirm that it is examining the Swiss Arms PE Classic Green rifle."


2) Can you confirm the date that the Canadian Firearms Lab took possession of these rifles?

"The CFP can confirm that it is examining the Swiss Arms PE Classic Green rifle."


3) Can you briefly explain the findings from the Firearms Lab in regards to each of those serial numbers?

"The Swiss Arms PE Classic Green rifle is currently under review."


4) Can you offer a brief explanation of the documentation that would be necessary to ascertain the lineage of these firearms?

"All documentation from the manufacturer identifying the antecedents of the firearm and its components is helpful"


5) Is there a deadline for such documentation? Have you received any from either Canadian or Swiss businesses?

"There is no deadline for this documentation"


It's worth noting that my first question was ignored:

For the record, can you confirm the current status of the series of rifles known as Swiss Arms? Namely FRT entries:

a) FRT # 129006 - Swiss Arms Black Special Carbine
b) FRT # 119587 - Swiss Arms Black Special
c) FRT # 119482 - Swiss Arms Classic Green
d) FRT # 124216 - Swiss Arms Classic Green Carbine
e) FRT # 124218 - Swiss Arms Classic Green CQB
f) FRT # 119588 - Swiss Arms Heavy Metal
g) FRT # 119485 - Swiss Arms Red Devil
h) FRT # 119484 - Swiss Arms Edition
 
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Martin248 said:
You are seriously asking this question, on post #505 of a thread about how their actions have negatively impacted all firearms owners in the country?
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No kidding. The blowback from this kind of thing creates a feeding frenzy. Media outlets won't be happy just reporting the facts, they will drudge up anything they can find to sensationalize this and put a spotlight on other scary guns. This fly-by-night workmanship has crash landed and is taking out a few parked planes on the way. Lets hope they haven't messed up the runway for good.
 
x0ra said:
Just a little precision for the un-aware, about this picture:

Converted-Auto-2.jpg


I suppose that what is to be noticed is the grossly patched/riveted third notch on the safety selector. Or is there other details to notice ?
Click to expand...

Aren't the fire selector switches on most VZ58 clones similar to that?

Martin248 said:
You are seriously asking this question, on post #505 of a thread about how their actions have negatively impacted all firearms owners in the country?
Click to expand...

The root cause of this issue isn't two businesses having a falling out and going after each other.

The root cause is the entire classification, registration, and licensing system is designed to prohibit firearms ownership. Fullstop.

This is not the first time this has happened - take the T97A fiasco. How was that scenario any different? No one was in conflict with one another.

The RCMP classified a gun as non-restricted. Millions of dollars were spent bringing them into the country, then on a whim, poof - it's reclassified as prohibited. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

How many times does this have to happen before people wake up to realize the root of the issue!
 
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mattf87 said:
Here is my letter I wrote to my local MP, I used some parts from your other letters and added some of my own. This was my first letter to an MP. Lets all do this and get changes done.


Dear Mr. Ron Cannan,

It has come to my attention that the FRT# has been pulled for the Swiss Arms family of firearms and the Kriss Vector. This action means that the legal transfer (sale) of these firearms is now on hold indefinitely, pending the ‘review’ underway at the RCMP’s Firearms Lab. It is important to note, both of these types of firearms have been legally owned in Canada for years with no issue.
Twelve years later the RCMP lab realizes that they may have made a mistake and plan to reclassify this firearm from Non-Restricted to Prohibited overnight. This means that regardless of the fact that none of these have ever been converted to full auto by a civilian and probably never used in a criminal act, that the legal gun owners who spent thousands of dollars on these will be a criminal if they don't buckle to the pressure of the RCMP and hand their firearms in.

This is not the first time this has happened in Canada, which means that unless we put a stop to the all powerful RCMP it WILL happen again. Whether you are a firearm supporter or not, you should be concerned by the actions that are taking place without a any resistance. How would you feel if you woke up to find out that your families vehicle had been deemed illegal and that you were being forced to hand it over to be crushed, or face jail time? If they can do it to one thing, they can do it to another.

I would like to implore you to do the right thing, rewrite Canada’s Firearms Act from a FAIR and COMMON SENSE perspective! Remove the RCMP’s ability to arbitrarily reclassify firearms and confiscate property from law abiding citizens! Remove the arbitrary and burdensome magazine limitations & Authorizations To Transport. Re-examine Firearms Classifications, whereby firearms were routinely prohibited by looks or by being deemed a variant of another previously prohibited firearm. All of these laws only cripple those who follow them, and that is the law abiding Canadian citizens who own firearms. It does not stop or even slow down the criminals who are using ILLEGAL firearms to commit criminal acts, they take no thought to the silly laws of legal magazine capacity, or safe transport of a firearm. Let's stand together and stand up and make the changes necessary to make this a free country again!
Thanks for your consideration,
Matt F.
Click to expand...

As of the last time I checked, the FRT #'s for Swiss Arms rifles are still in place as non-restricted or restricted, respective to barrel length.

While I think it is great that you guys are writing letters to your MP's about this, you must make sure the letters are factually accurate.
 
TenHolePunch said:
No kidding. The blowback from this kind of thing creates a feeding frenzy. Media outlets won't be happy just reporting the facts, they will drudge up anything they can find to sensationalize this and put a spotlight on other scary guns. This fly-by-night workmanship has crash landed and is taking out a few parked planes on the way. Lets hope they haven't messed up the runway for good.
Click to expand...

Sun News and maybe the National Post will write accurate articles about it. But, once it gets on the other's radar, all there will be is a bunch of articles and reports about "machine guns" slipping through the cracks and the imagined threat to public safety. Even accurate media reports are a double-edged sword...
 
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