Swiss Arms rifles being examined for reclassification?

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Not Long said:
Sorry for the stupid question but do the RCMP still think that the C/A rifles are the "real" Classic Greens?
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Considering that the CA rifles appear to have been supplied by the original importer of the "real" Classic Greens, I'd say the RCMP have no reason to think otherwise. But as has been mentioned before, not all the "real" (let's call these more accurately the "originally imported") Classic Greens have CA uppers, so it's probably incorrect to let the CA/non-CA be a determinant. You could also look to SAN's official response to the RCMP inquiry on the so-call "spurious" Classic Green to know that in SAN's eyes all Classic Greens that they exported to Canada are "real".
 
Brian46 said:
what would have happened is entirely speculation, what did happen is a direct result of those rifles being sent to them by TSE and their own control samples being claimed as C/A by the RCMP, that fact can not be argued.
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Would you say, though, that outside the context of the what triggered the RCMP's scrutiny, the CA issue is still relevant with regards to how the RCMP proceeds with considering reclassification of the Swiss Arms family? I'll respectfully answer "no" and say that the only relevant issue now is the question of whether Classic Greens are a variant of the SG 540 or the SG 550.

Everyone has their own interests, but what's relevant to me is whether Swiss Arms owners will be allowed to keep their rifles and how, should SAN be unable to convince the RCMP otherwise, this "victory" by the RCMP to retroactively ban a popular firearm will affect other firearms owners.
 
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The "converted auto" thing is a red herring - it's irrelevant if the design is the same, or it's a doctored version of the auto version AS LONG AS the rifle in question was never assembled into a functioning full auto, or could not be easily made into a functioning full auto. CA (Converted Auto) requires that the firearm was at some point a functioning machine gun or could easily be made into one. None of these rifles will pass "easily converted", but some (the "used" rifles) may fail the "was a functioning full auto" test. Therefore "the only relevant issue now is the question of whether Classic Greens are a variant of the SG 540 or the SG 550. " is entirely correct.
 
stickhunter said:
Would you say, though, that outside the context of the what triggered the RCMP's scrutiny, the CA issue is still relevant with regards to how the RCMP proceeds with considering reclassification of the Swiss Arms family? I'll respectfully answer "no" and say that the only relevant issue now is the question of whether Classic Greens are a variant of the SG 540 or the SG 550.
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It would entirely depend on how they handle the C/A issue IMO. The C/A rifles will not be legal anymore regardless of lineage claim according to our gun laws. The decission the RCMP makes may weigh highly on how many of these rifles were sent by mistake and how SAN and the retailers say they will deal with getting the current ones removed from civilian hands and insuring it does not happen again.
 
iamcanadianeh said:
To address the bigger issue of RCMP re-classifying at will. Canadian gun owners absolutely need representation in order to retain our ground.
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Thanks but I don't think the RCMP are just re-classifying at will in this case. They have obviously received bad information and highly questionable C/A exemplars, having never looked at these things initially to begin with, and have since seen a 540, 541, 550 and SAPR... If I was in their shoes I don't see how I could just let it ride either all things considered. This Swiss Arms thing was as screwed-up as a soup sandwich before JR took it to the next level for whatever reason I submit.

Just wish I'd known about it 5 months ago...

I just think given the circumstances there's not a lot any legal challenge could do, this thing has been waiting to come unglued for a while and here we are. This one has been handed to the RCMP on a plate unless JR and SAN have religious experiences and the RCMP view the manger before July I surmise.
 
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Brian46 said:
It would entirely depend on how they handle the C/A issue IMO. The C/A rifles will not be legal anymore regardless of lineage claim according to our gun laws. The decission the RCMP makes may weigh highly on how many of these rifles were sent by mistake and how SAN and the retailers say they will deal with getting the current ones removed from civilian hands and insuring it does not happen again.
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Regardless of how the CA issue is handled, if the SG 540 lineage cannot be established, both CA and non-CA Swiss Arms rifles will be prohibited. The CA issue affects a subset of Swiss Arms rifles, while the variant issue affects all. I know where I'd be putting my efforts...
 
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If it was left up to the RCMP to decide, no law abiding citizen would be allowed to have a gun IMO. No firearm I would say is going to be safe from reclassification if it turns out the RCMP didn't do their job the first time around when they issued the original FRT
 
enefgee said:
The "converted auto" thing is a red herring - it's irrelevant if the design is the same, or it's a doctored version of the auto version AS LONG AS the rifle in question was never assembled into a functioning full auto, or could not be easily made into a functioning full auto. CA (Converted Auto) requires that the firearm was at some point a functioning machine gun or could easily be made into one. None of these rifles will pass "easily converted", but some (the "used" rifles) may fail the "was a functioning full auto" test. Therefore "the only relevant issue now is the question of whether Classic Greens are a variant of the SG 540 or the SG 550. " is entirely correct.
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No, they will never fail that test. As I have kept reporting and as shown in the documents at TV-Press Pass' site, the "used" guns were actually checked more thoroughly that the new manufactured SAN rifles apparently were. There is only one person alleging that these guns were ex military, there is no substantiation to the allegations and the RCMP have already concluded that the "spurious" rifle was not C/A which to be an ex military rifle it would most assuredly have to be.

I do agree however that at this time the focus should and will be on the lineage of the line. The C/A's represent only a small subset as one poster has indicated.
 
Shooting Centre said:
I do agree however that at this time the focus should and will be on the lineage of the line.
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To your knowledge does the current SAN ownership/staff even have this information, technical specs, etc. to start to prove some kind of lineage other than that of the 550? Thank-you for continuing to post.
 
Not Long said:
To your knowledge does the current SAN ownership/staff even have this information, technical specs, etc. to start to prove some kind of lineage other than that of the 550? Thank-you for continuing to post.
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The current CEO has only been there since 2008. He has no direct knowledge of what had occurred in the past but is making every effort to find out. MD Charlton is lead on this as they are the current distributor, JR was the person who originally dealt with both SAN and the RCMP so he is providing the corporate knowledge from the olden days.
 
Steve Janes said:
You and I may not care, but The RCMP and the LAW care, because they are 550 variants and prohib by name...According to the RCMP.

And your suggestion of messing with blueprints so that they indicate the guns came from 540's.....That's what the importer did 12 years ago, and now the RCMP have realized they were lied too.....We cannot make the same claim again. The CEO who did the scribble at the bottom of the page 12 years ago is long gone, and the new CEO doesn't understand any of this nonsense.
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Hey Steve (and everyone else) -

Yeah, it was not my intention to suggest that that SAN mess with any blue prints. Rather, if a blue print from the archive in their drawing office could be found with some sort of link between the 540 and our Classic Greens.

Sorry for the confusion - Abby
 
blaxsun said:
So... if this goes south, who's on the hook for compensation? Not sure after 10 years the RCMP is going to be picking up the tab...
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There will be no compensation unless ordered by the courts , It will be a loss that will be absorbed by the owner if all else fails .I am sure there could be a lot of legal fall out on this matter and not directed at the RCMP over the handling of this matter . It is really a train wreck that not only affects the SAN rifles but every rifle since the SAN were given an FRT I see a big problem on the horizon for everyone .
 
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