Swiss Arms SAPR in low rate production

I have both a CQB and a SG552 issued to me.

So far no problems with either. 4000+ rounds through the 552, mostly semi and burst (Canadian Police Tactical Teams rarely use full auto for anything. Huge liabilities ect...all rounds accounted for...bla...bla...)
I've had one malfunction and I think it may have been a case that bounced off of a barricade and back into the ejection port as it was closing, but I can't be sure. We also shoot frangible ammo for practice that doesn't even look like a real bullet and doesn't work in all guns. No problems in the Sig's or AUG though. When we first got our SG552 we did an introductory shoot / training with them. We got them so hot that when we put them down and went for lunch they melted into the plastic tables they were laid down on. After several hundred rounds they get very dirty and cruddy but they keep firing no matter how much crap they seem to get in the gas system and action.

I respect Kevin and Big Red's experience and opinions. They have unique real world experience and run their weapons hard. They have found some limitations to the system. Some of these are well known;

1. The metal recoil spring guide rod stresses and breaks.
It's now been replaced with plastic ones that last much longer (longer than most guy's ammo budgets).
2. The early gas plugs were from the big guns, they have been changed to better regulate gas volume on the little 552's.
Less beating on the guns now. (Before the civilian CQB owners flood TSE with angry emails, it's my belief that all CQB's that came into Canada had the new gas plugs and plastic recoil spring guides).
3. The SG552, like most short barreled 5.56mm weapons is hard on extractors. They are said to break at about the 10000 round mark.
Solution, regular inspection and change out before 10000 rounds.

This weapon is in use with Swiss Special Forces Units, French Naval Commandos and UK SAS. It is on the approved weapons list of the FBI as well. The FBI has done a 10000 round endurance test on Swiss Arms guns and they passed. They do not have a great deal in inventory because they cost more than AR products, use unique mags, different manual of arms, most guys are familiar with the AR ect. Speaking to an ex-Swiss Soldier He advises that he has never seen a 552 break except for the cocking handle being sheered off when firing too close to cover. (The Swiss also complain that the gun is too loud.)

I'm trying to wrap my head around why the SAS would test and adopt the SG552 if it has severe problems. The limited information I have is that it is slated to replace the MP5 as their primary CQB weapon (this info is of unknow reliablilty and not confirmed). I don't have any contacts with them so maybe they have dropped it. Does anyone know?

Short barreled 5.56mm guns are violent in operation. They also limit the value and range of what is coming out of the business end. It has taken years for companies to get short barreled AR's to run properly. Sig had their SG552's running reliably right from the start. The system is not perfect though and has gone through some upgrades. Any short barreled 5.56mm gun is not going to last as long as a longer barreled gun, just more wear and tear, perssure ect.

I'd recommend that someone buy a 5.56mm gun that has a longer barrel, like 14-16 inches. Much better all-round gun that fills more roles. There are users that need very short weapons and have to go with the 9 inches.

Chances of a semi auto CQB with 5 round mags breaking, very slim.

Rich
 
fall apart like 552's? hahah LOL u must be a complete ignorant *bleep*, have you even shot one before? NO you havent! i can say this because if you ever owned one or at least even shot one, then you wouldnt say that. i actually DO HAVE one, and buddy it shoots like a dream, ive had it for 2 years cleaned it twice, no malfunctions whatsoever, i would love to see your piece of doo doo AR do that, ignorant statements by ignorant people, or its just PURE JEALOUSY


OMFG!!

That is gold pure gold!!

You are right up there with BLACK OOPS!

Only cleaned it twice you say....

Well you might want to get out shooting more!

BTW....do you have a DOLL styled after you??
Have you been in SOF??
 
FYI -- most of our Sig's have less than a 7k rounds count...
We have a log book for them much like a sniper data book.
These rifles where BRAND new when imported and imported by the security company -- not some Iraqi cast off units (we would have been better served by their Sig551's though) -- BigRed got NIB ones.

Sig has admitted the 552 is a flawed design, CRG is having the same issues we have, as are many others issued the 552 -- they seem to have belatedly fitted most issues -- but some of our guns have gone done recently with ALL the new upgrade parts installed -- metal fatigue on the bolt/piston would be my guess.

Sig/SA is redoing the 552 - and creating a new system for a shorty.
 
Took less than a week for my cqb to come in,so my r.nicholl fear has passed for the most part. here's hoping it continues like that and the 308's are on the way.

Yah I can't say much good about FN Sports/R. Nicholls I got a order for a M1A (My first dealing with ordering something that goes through them), and so far from 3-5 weeks when they first quoted the time to the store I ordered from back in November, its now 6 months (2nd change of delivery date by them to May, after not making the first change of a March date). Talked to a Sales Rep from FN Sports at the Sportsmans Show, and well he said drop him a email and I did 5 days ago and still no reply. :(

If they don't make the May delivery I'm gonna cancel the order and see if Wolverine Supplies could get it for me (who I probably should have ordered it from anyways from the start :redface: ).

Dimitri
 
I can't wait for this, but I have a feeling I'm gonna shoot one in EU before it's going to be available in Canada. I wonder if Swiss Arms makes them Semi-Auto only?
SigSAPR1.jpg
 
I can't wait for this, but I have a feeling I'm gonna shoot one in EU before it's going to be available in Canada. I wonder if Swiss Arms makes them Semi-Auto only?

If you are asking about SAPR as made by Swiss Arms and Brugger&Thomet,
AFAIK SAPR = Semi Automatic Precision Rifle.
I never heard about the intend of making that gun in selective fire,
but IMO, FA sucks in a hand-held 308.
Plus, the idea of FA comes in conflict with "precision".

FYI, there are a couple of so-called SAPR's in Canada.
 
If you are asking about SAPR as made by Swiss Arms and Brugger&Thomet,
AFAIK SAPR = Semi Automatic Precision Rifle.
I never heard about the intend of making that gun in selective fire,
but IMO, FA sucks in a hand-held 308.
Plus, the idea of FA comes in conflict with "precision".

FYI, there are a couple of so-called SAPR's in Canada.


If you look at the pictures posted above, you can clearly see the selector, and the 7.62 clearly printed on the same receiver.

EDITED to add picture:
SigSAPR5.jpg
 
I wouldn't trust too much the selector engraving.
Those pics are a bit old and they are of a show-off gun
(Norköping military expo???).
You probably see the serial # 001 on the other side of the receiver
in the above pics or the shyty welding of the mag well and other areas of the receiver (probably made out of a 223 version).
If in the meantime Swiss Arms decided to make a selective fire version,
I'm not aware of it.
 
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I wouldn't trust too much the selector engraving.
Those pics are a bit old and they are of a show-off gun
(Norköping military expo???).
You probably see the serial # 001 on the other side of the receiver
in the above pics or the shyty welding of the mag well and other areas of the receiver (probably made out of a 223 version).
If in the meantime Swiss Arms decided to make a selective fire version,
I'm not aware of it.



I also noted the welds. You are probably right, it may just be a show model. Even if they intend on making a selective fire 7.62 rifle, I'm more than certain that there will be semi-auto only version for the rest of us.
 
If you are asking about SAPR as made by Swiss Arms and Brugger&Thomet,
AFAIK SAPR = Semi Automatic Precision Rifle.
I never heard about the intend of making that gun in selective fire,
but IMO, FA sucks in a hand-held 308.
Plus, the idea of FA comes in conflict with "precision".

FYI, there are a couple of so-called SAPR's in Canada.

Doctor Kevorkian, don't pop a vein on your brain, man. I was just asking I didn't try to hit you :redface: I've read rumors on some other websites about selective fire and i dared to wonder.
 
Ok, "man".
And I was just trying to help with my limited knowledge
and my humble opinion.
I was just saying that I didn't hear about it (from a reliable source).


I don't know where you got that info about selective fire from,
probably from arfcom or something like that :rolleyes:

Huh... Let me guess: maybe from something like this??? ;)
h ttp://cnr-ffl.us/HOST/SAPR_Presentation_UK05.pdf


And no, I'm not going to pop a vein:)

Shoot safe
Cheers
 
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