Stormchaser
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yes!!! Please do! I like your views
T97 vs Tavor Threads Merged
- Thread starter Kryogen
- Start date
Yes!!! Please do! I like your views
I very much appreciate your opinions all the time. But this thread is not meant to be about opinions... its meant to be a comparison. No matter how each of us feel about how the gun looks, my aim is to find out how it compares and functions. I own both and have now shot both. So I have first hand experience and understanding of the differences.
Stormchaser
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
How was your comparison today?
allarile260
Regular
- Location
- London, Ontario
There also were Sooo many threads about the tavor, it's all relative.
Nice to see them side-by-side and to hear your thoughts. The more modern sporting rifles there are in good civilian hands, the better.
I am not going to be ditching my AR any time soon, although the Non-resricted status is appealling.
Why the hell did our Chinese creditors/masters decide to design a ginormous carrying handle that forces the optic very high like that?? Seriously. I mean, the AR's original carry handle has been ditched, for good reason, and replaced by a rail. Why not only bring it back, but make it even bigger? I can only imagine what mounting a magnified scope on there would be like.
Anyways, let us know how it works on the range, function, accuracy, etc.
I am not going to be ditching my AR any time soon, although the Non-resricted status is appealling.
Why the hell did our Chinese creditors/masters decide to design a ginormous carrying handle that forces the optic very high like that?? Seriously. I mean, the AR's original carry handle has been ditched, for good reason, and replaced by a rail. Why not only bring it back, but make it even bigger? I can only imagine what mounting a magnified scope on there would be like.
Anyways, let us know how it works on the range, function, accuracy, etc.
Because the arms committee got their inspiration from Terminator 2 & Total Recall. Those iconic movies were a huge hit in the 90s just in case you did not know.
Then they sourced down the Muzzelite stock and that inspired the foundation to the QBZ95 design.
Muzzelite Mini-14
QBZ95
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! We won't hold it against you, takes all kinds to make up us Nutz that love guns!
..or is it the BEER holder ..
.. Heyy, I've had a few & I'm findin' her ###Xxy ... I hope Dominion Arms (CanAm) is on par as Norinco, & they hurry up & get here!OK... so after a trip to the range this afternoon I have some more observations about the T97 on its own, and in comparison to the Tavor. A video of fast firing 20 rounds from both is uploading as I type this. With my 3rd world style internet connection it should be about 3 months before its uploaded.
The T97 is an excellent shooting gun. I fired about 200 rounds of cheap norinco through it and other than some initial sorting out, the gun fired flawlessly. I tried the factory mag and 6 different LAR pistol mags. All the LAR mags worked perfect except one appeared difficult to insert and seat. It was periodic... not consistent. Not sure what that was all about.
Charging the gun is annoying. I cant figure out if I want to use my index or middle finger to pull the charge handle. Its light enough, but is still a bit hard on the fingers. i think it would be even more difficult for a woman with smaller hands.
The safety is just a joke. The ONLY redeeming quality of the safety IMO is that it CAN be engaged when the gun is NOT charged AND it prevents the gun from chambering a round if its on. This seems like a smart idea. However, if you plan to run the gun in any kind of pressure situation (as in, IDPA or 3 gun style matches) the safety is just terrible.
The mag release isnt as much of an issue as I had originally thought. Once you get accustomed to the wrap around grip needed to reach it with your left hand index finger, its not bad. My mags all dropped free, or, if I didnt want them to drop, I could easily hit the release and grab the mag with one hand. Inserting a mag was finicky. The almost extended magwel is hard to hit dead on when your trying to be fast. Releasing the bolt with the charge handle isnt the worst thing ever, but its definitely NOT as fast or as easy as on an AR or Tavor... a button would be so much better, but knowing Norinco it would probably be positioned infront of the muzzle for maximum inefficiency.
The gun shoots great. Honestly, it really does. The trigger is strange only in that there does not seem to be any actual release point. You pull it and its nice and light, it feels very positive, not mushy at all... but before you feel any actual resistance, the gun fires. Its also very long so its hard to memorize the actual release point. Yes, the trigger is smoother and lighter than the Tavor, but I prefer the Tavors trigger and I was way faster with the Tavor, for whatever thats worth.
Recoil is nearly non existent. The small butt pad fits nicely into your shoulder and can be held at all different positions comfortably. Thanks to the ultra low recoil no position, no matter how akward, results in any uncomfortableness in your shoulder. This is good. Because, with a sight rail so high, you need to sit the gun way up on your shoulder so just the bottom corner of the butt is touching you or you cant get any kind of chin weld. The little reflex sight seemed to be a good fit with this gun. I was able to produce a nearly one inch group at 25 yards off a bag. I was happy with this result. I didnt bother going any farther than 25 yards with the sight as I just suck with them anyway so im sure the groups would simply have opened up. Id like to see what the gun can do with a magnified optic. I think its decently accurate.
Holding the gun during fire is very comfortable. The grip is a nice shape and is at a nice angle, the foregrip is comfortable and locks your hand in nicely on the gun. Nothing stood out as uncomfortable to me other than the wonky chin weld necessary to see through the optic. We dont need to mention that again... its been covered enough. It sucks, deal with it.
I noticed the gun gets very hot all over. I fired about 200 rounds in 20 round sets... the first 100 were 5 at a time, the last 100 were in 10 round groups. By the time I was done the entire gun was very hot. The front grip was hot, the reciever of the gun was hot, even the pistol grip was hot. The long metal chassis inside this gun seems to dissipate heat all over the gun. The Tavor doesnt get hot to hold at all.
I had not FTF's or FTE's but I did learn a lesson about the gas system early on. The gas system has 3 positions labeled 1, 0 and 2. It comes factory pre-set to 0 and at this setting would not cycle the gun at all. It would fire but the action would not cycle back at all. The action had to be manually pulled back to eject the round and it could be VERY stiff. I then set the system to 1... this solved the problem entirely. After this, it fired and ejected every round without any issues at all.
Only time it didnt feed was when I didnt get an LAR mag seated tightly. it only happened once and I know the mag was locked in... but it just needed a tap and it was all better.
I had no issues at all with this thing. Its a great firing gun. Feels good in your hands, shoots well, functions excellent. But, after running the gun for an afternoon I have come to this conclusion.
Is the Tavor 2X the gun the T97 is? Yes... but just barely and only for the right user. If you just want a bull pup to go to the range and plink away, get a T97 and save yourself $1300. it does everything the Tavor does, with a few quirks that wont effect you off the bench or just plinking.
BUT... IF you intended to compete with this gun at all or IF you want a gun that you can be sure will be suitable in a SHTF situation... get the Tavor. The truth is, a Tavor isnt a $3000 gun as some have suggested and the T97 is not a $1000 as many have said it is. A Tavor can be picked up easily for $2500-2600 lightly used. A new T97 is going to cost you about $1200... so for a difference of about $1300 or so the Tavor is a better overall gun. It works the way you think it should with no surprises or disappointments. And it should... its a darn expensive rig.
But the T97 is not at all disappointing when you factor in the price. Im very happy with mine. Im going to keep it for a while and put some more rounds through it. Will I keep it forever? Im not sure. I know my Tavor isnt going anywhere anytime soon, thats a fact and if I could only own one it would be the Tavor. But I can afford a Tavor. If you cant, dont feel bad about buying a T97.
Pics and video will be up as soon as they are done uploading.
The T97 is an excellent shooting gun. I fired about 200 rounds of cheap norinco through it and other than some initial sorting out, the gun fired flawlessly. I tried the factory mag and 6 different LAR pistol mags. All the LAR mags worked perfect except one appeared difficult to insert and seat. It was periodic... not consistent. Not sure what that was all about.
Charging the gun is annoying. I cant figure out if I want to use my index or middle finger to pull the charge handle. Its light enough, but is still a bit hard on the fingers. i think it would be even more difficult for a woman with smaller hands.
The safety is just a joke. The ONLY redeeming quality of the safety IMO is that it CAN be engaged when the gun is NOT charged AND it prevents the gun from chambering a round if its on. This seems like a smart idea. However, if you plan to run the gun in any kind of pressure situation (as in, IDPA or 3 gun style matches) the safety is just terrible.
The mag release isnt as much of an issue as I had originally thought. Once you get accustomed to the wrap around grip needed to reach it with your left hand index finger, its not bad. My mags all dropped free, or, if I didnt want them to drop, I could easily hit the release and grab the mag with one hand. Inserting a mag was finicky. The almost extended magwel is hard to hit dead on when your trying to be fast. Releasing the bolt with the charge handle isnt the worst thing ever, but its definitely NOT as fast or as easy as on an AR or Tavor... a button would be so much better, but knowing Norinco it would probably be positioned infront of the muzzle for maximum inefficiency.
The gun shoots great. Honestly, it really does. The trigger is strange only in that there does not seem to be any actual release point. You pull it and its nice and light, it feels very positive, not mushy at all... but before you feel any actual resistance, the gun fires. Its also very long so its hard to memorize the actual release point. Yes, the trigger is smoother and lighter than the Tavor, but I prefer the Tavors trigger and I was way faster with the Tavor, for whatever thats worth.
Recoil is nearly non existent. The small butt pad fits nicely into your shoulder and can be held at all different positions comfortably. Thanks to the ultra low recoil no position, no matter how akward, results in any uncomfortableness in your shoulder. This is good. Because, with a sight rail so high, you need to sit the gun way up on your shoulder so just the bottom corner of the butt is touching you or you cant get any kind of chin weld. The little reflex sight seemed to be a good fit with this gun. I was able to produce a nearly one inch group at 25 yards off a bag. I was happy with this result. I didnt bother going any farther than 25 yards with the sight as I just suck with them anyway so im sure the groups would simply have opened up. Id like to see what the gun can do with a magnified optic. I think its decently accurate.
Holding the gun during fire is very comfortable. The grip is a nice shape and is at a nice angle, the foregrip is comfortable and locks your hand in nicely on the gun. Nothing stood out as uncomfortable to me other than the wonky chin weld necessary to see through the optic. We dont need to mention that again... its been covered enough. It sucks, deal with it.
I noticed the gun gets very hot all over. I fired about 200 rounds in 20 round sets... the first 100 were 5 at a time, the last 100 were in 10 round groups. By the time I was done the entire gun was very hot. The front grip was hot, the reciever of the gun was hot, even the pistol grip was hot. The long metal chassis inside this gun seems to dissipate heat all over the gun. The Tavor doesnt get hot to hold at all.
I had not FTF's or FTE's but I did learn a lesson about the gas system early on. The gas system has 3 positions labeled 1, 0 and 2. It comes factory pre-set to 0 and at this setting would not cycle the gun at all. It would fire but the action would not cycle back at all. The action had to be manually pulled back to eject the round and it could be VERY stiff. I then set the system to 1... this solved the problem entirely. After this, it fired and ejected every round without any issues at all.
Only time it didnt feed was when I didnt get an LAR mag seated tightly. it only happened once and I know the mag was locked in... but it just needed a tap and it was all better.
I had no issues at all with this thing. Its a great firing gun. Feels good in your hands, shoots well, functions excellent. But, after running the gun for an afternoon I have come to this conclusion.
Is the Tavor 2X the gun the T97 is? Yes... but just barely and only for the right user. If you just want a bull pup to go to the range and plink away, get a T97 and save yourself $1300. it does everything the Tavor does, with a few quirks that wont effect you off the bench or just plinking.
BUT... IF you intended to compete with this gun at all or IF you want a gun that you can be sure will be suitable in a SHTF situation... get the Tavor. The truth is, a Tavor isnt a $3000 gun as some have suggested and the T97 is not a $1000 as many have said it is. A Tavor can be picked up easily for $2500-2600 lightly used. A new T97 is going to cost you about $1200... so for a difference of about $1300 or so the Tavor is a better overall gun. It works the way you think it should with no surprises or disappointments. And it should... its a darn expensive rig.
But the T97 is not at all disappointing when you factor in the price. Im very happy with mine. Im going to keep it for a while and put some more rounds through it. Will I keep it forever? Im not sure. I know my Tavor isnt going anywhere anytime soon, thats a fact and if I could only own one it would be the Tavor. But I can afford a Tavor. If you cant, dont feel bad about buying a T97.
Pics and video will be up as soon as they are done uploading.
- Location
- Iles Aux Grenouilles
Good review ,Pics and video will be welcome i wait
i wait 
yes, but only after you've had some time to play with a T97, make sure it's actually honest.
Nice review Pavementsurfer. Balanced. I love the way the gun points, hate the mag well (where is that hole, honey, turn on the lights...) and patiently await a mag release improvement. The irons are excellent, the high rail livable if you choose a really low optic. Think aimpoint micro, burris fastfire 2, bushnell trs-25, leupold delta point. Anything higher than those, get your neck stretched. The breakdown for cleaning is brilliantly simple, and easy to get at everything. No more weird plumbing brushes like the Tavor needs. Is it better than a Tavor, or other 2000-3000 dollar bullpup? Nope, but then again, it's not $3000.
Perhaps some more detail on how the gas selector works would be in order.
It's not covered in the manual unless I missed it.
EDIT: just took a bit of fiddling to lock the gas selector to position "1" or "2". Did not engage the first few times, just being new and all..
It's not covered in the manual unless I missed it.
EDIT: just took a bit of fiddling to lock the gas selector to position "1" or "2". Did not engage the first few times, just being new and all..
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