Tavor advice, Yes or No??

[TV-PressPass]

Thats interesting Boss. I used to have problems with my Tavor short stroking, but that was a different issue.

How cold are we talking here?

I've taken my Tavor out in -20 and -25 days multiple times, but unfortunately I've never had the ballsiness or opportunity to try minus forty. Its always performed admirably, even after spending some time in the snow.

If you are out in minus 40, do think about what you're using for lube.

As far as accuracy goes, people like to give the Tavor guff for being in 2MOA range. Personally, I feel like the rifle is more accurate than I am still (maybe that doesn't say much about me as a shooter) but I have no problem getting it to hit what I aim at, as long as my optic is properly zeroed.

Part of the accuracy problem comes from getting used to the trigger. Its stiff: don't shoot it like you're Vasily Zaytsev. Shoot it like a fricken combat rifle. I try to run a handful of snap caps on a regular basis so I can stay in the mood with the Tavor trigger.

The Tavor likes heavier loads. I'm taking some hornady 77gr out tomorrow to shoot video with. We'll see what kind of results I come back with.

 

[haha49]

This youtube vid doesn't make me want a RFB very badly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_xvj_7aO2Y

That was magazine problems for feeding.... 90 percent of function comes down to the magazine.


I used to own one gas system worked just fine I cleaned it before use and the only problem was it was rough on brass ie it chewed them up was picky with what magaizines it liked ie lots of junk ones out there.

 

[J996]

The Tavor likes heavier loads. I'm taking some hornady 77gr out tomorrow to shoot video with. We'll see what kind of results I come back with.

Now that would be interesting. If you have time can you do a 10 or 15 shot group at 300 yards? I would like to see what this rifle can do at range with match ammo. Nowhere on cgn is there a good example of a 300 yard Tavor grouping for people interested in the rifle.

 

[Steve Janes]

OP, be sure to tell us what you decide

Now that would be interesting. If you have time can you do a 10 or 15 shot group at 300 yards? I would like to see what this rifle can do at range with match ammo. Nowhere on cgn is there a good example of a 300 yard Tavor grouping for people interested in the rifle.

I agree, I too am curious as to what they can really do out that far. Everyone seems to have very little faith in the Tavor's accuracy, but no one has shown us 300m groups

 

[blaxsun]

My Tavor short stroked in sub zero temperature at about a 10% failure to feed rate, tried all different ammo , different lubes, mags , cleaning. No luck , only other thing i thought to try was taking a couple coils off the recoil spring to lighten it up, It seemed to be getting under gassed ?

How "sub-zero"? Under-gassed does not seem to be a problem on the Tavor.

I agree, I too am curious as to what they can really do out that far. Everyone seems to have very little faith in the Tavor's accuracy, but no one has shown us 300m groups

I know a few people who plan to post some results with heavier ammunition, but I think they've been waiting on the weather.

The Swiss is way more rifle for the money

The Swiss Arms is way overpriced for the rifle. $4k by the time you even get around to adding the optic...

 

[pbr streetgang]

Thats interesting Boss. I used to have problems with my Tavor short stroking, but that was a different issue.

How cold are we talking here?

I've taken my Tavor out in -20 and -25 days multiple times, but unfortunately I've never had the ballsiness or opportunity to try minus forty. Its always performed admirably, even after spending some time in the snow.

If you are out in minus 40, do think about what you're using for lube.

As far as accuracy goes, people like to give the Tavor guff for being in 2MOA range. Personally, I feel like the rifle is more accurate than I am still (maybe that doesn't say much about me as a shooter) but I have no problem getting it to hit what I aim at, as long as my optic is properly zeroed.

Part of the accuracy problem comes from getting used to the trigger. Its stiff: don't shoot it like you're Vasily Zaytsev. Shoot it like a fricken combat rifle. I try to run a handful of snap caps on a regular basis so I can stay in the mood with the Tavor trigger.

The Tavor likes heavier loads. I'm taking some hornady 77gr out tomorrow to shoot video with. We'll see what kind of results I come back with.

It hasn't been colder than -5 this winter on the west coast, unless he took it inland and even then it's still been quite mild this year.

 

[TV-PressPass]

I know a few people who plan to post some results with heavier ammunition, but I think they've been waiting on the weather.

It was only minus 9 today! Hell, that's practically shorts weather with the sun in Calgary!

 

[blaxsun]

It was only minus 9 today! Hell, that's practically shorts weather with the sun in Calgary!

It was -27.5°C over Christmas... plus wind chill. I don't know about other parts of the country, but we've had fairly good snowfall - so I suspect it's more the actual conditions that's delaying it as opposed to just the temperature.

 

[Mike7]

Not a bullpup and I don't have a ton of info but another option would be a Robinson Arms XCR in 308? You get a big caliber for hunting, good bang for the buck, non-restricted and a similar look/feel/ergonomics to the C7 that you have experience with.

 

[J996]

I know a few people who plan to post some results with heavier ammunition, but I think they've been waiting on the weather.

Wha? Fack the weather! Pretty please, with sugar on top, bundle up the vag in a snowsuit and show me some 300 yard Tavor groups hehe

 

[Jay]

It was -27.5°C over Christmas... plus wind chill. I don't know about other parts of the country, but we've had fairly good snowfall - so I suspect it's more the actual conditions that's delaying it as opposed to just the temperature.

Only living things 'feel' windchill... If it's -27.5 out, then that's the temp the gun will be if left out.

Cheers
Jay

 

[Jerengineer]

The Tavor likes heavier loads. I'm taking some hornady 77gr out tomorrow to shoot video with. We'll see what kind of results I come back with.

TV – We are all anxious to see your nice Tavor group from a solid bench rest at 300m.

The Swiss Arms is way overpriced for the rifle. $4k by the time you even get around to adding the optic...

I looked that one up and it quickly went out of my price range…

Not a bullpup and I don't have a ton of info but another option would be a Robinson Arms XCR in 308? You get a big caliber for hunting, good bang for the buck, non-restricted and a similar look/feel/ergonomics to the C7 that you have experience with.

OK I’ll look into it, does anyone else have some hands on experience?

 

[Jay]

I looked that one up and it quickly went out of my price range…

April may line up with the Non-restricted T97 that is expected to land...

1K...

Cheers
Jay

 

[J996]

I looked that one up and it quickly went out of my price range…

$2800 on the cgn equipment exchange is what they go for. I would never be able to afford an new one either. Got mine there used in exc condition for $2650 a few years ago.

 

[Kosmic]

@OP - FS2000 could be an option.

 

[Teletraan]

Hi Folks,

In April we are having our first child and to congratulate myself on a job well done I’ve decided to get my first black rifle. I’m leaning toward the IWI Tavor TAR 21. Please tell me why this is a good or bad idea. Here is a little about my shooting application and life.

1) I have access to basically unlimited 5.56x45mm brass (I’m a Canadian Ranger and we shoot the C7 yearly)
2) Reloading
3) Hunting wolves (not at the range, so ya, non-restricted a must)
4) -40 winter conditions
5) 300m shooting competitions

Questions:
1) Can I do this with reasonable add-ons (including optics) for less than 3000?
2) Does it fit my shooting needs?
3) What add-ons should I be ordering?
4) Who should I buy from?

I've got 2000 rounds through my Tavor 1 fail to eject but was my fault.
I wish it cost $1500 but it doesnt.
Mine is worth every penny

1) I have access to basically unlimited 5.56x45mm brass (I’m a Canadian Ranger and we shoot the C7 yearly)
Then your first black rifle should be a 5.56. not a 308 (shoot alot and have fun)

2) Reloading
You will be able to tailor loads to max the Tavor's ability. (and you will be the first) and I would shamelessly copy you.

3) Hunting wolves (not at the range, so ya, non-restricted a must)
I don't yet hunt but it is my understanding that a .223/5.56 will kill a wolf (experimentation of 90 gr sounds interesting) I think the Tavor is the ###iest non-restricted 5/56 available.

4) -40 winter conditions
Too cold for me. But I drive on my four wheeler with very cold wind chill; no hint of a problem for my tavor. (love the bullpup)

5) 300m shooting competitions

Jerengineer, What are the rules of the competition? Group size or hits on steel plates?

I primarily shoot off hand running around close range and the Tavor is arguably number 1 at this. The Tavor(assault types) is not designed to shoot pin point groups @ 300m. However I shoot my tavor long range any ways. I shot against my buds .223 bolt gun bench rest@ 260m and was embarrassed fully. I didnt even have a hand load and my bud had a hand load tuned extensively for his bolt rifle. But then I smartened up and changed the match to hits vs. time into IDPA targets @260m.... A Tavor ice cold, with 1x red dot and norinco surplus will easily put all rounds into idpa target @260m very quickly.




Answers:
1) Can I do this with reasonable add-ons (including optics) for less than 3000?
no. i bought Brand new @ $2650.00 + 13%tax is $2994.50. Maybe a good hunting scope can be had at around $200 but I think AO is a must(more money)

2) Does it fit my shooting needs?
If you want a bullpup then yes.. consider other 5.56 non restricted bullpups...
Type 97NSR http://www.wanstallsonline.com/ and
Type 88 sniper http://www.tacticalimports.ca/type-88-sniper-p-4.html
FS2000 https://shopquestar.com/shopping65/shopexd.asp?id=1431&bc=no

3) What add-ons should I be ordering?
Brass catcher. Get the optics that will let you see your prey easily.

4) Who should I buy from?
Every dealer on here is excellent

 

[Steve Janes]

$2800 on the cgn equipment exchange is what they go for. I would never be able to afford an new one either. Got mine there used in exc condition for $2650 a few years ago.

I agree, I have bought two off the EE one for 2800 and one for 2750

Who in the hell would buy a brand new one at 3800 taxes in? I just sold one for $2500 on the EE

Certainly on average more expensive than some other NR Blacks, but not as expensive as people like to say unless you buy new, which only a very insane person would do.

 

[TV-PressPass]

Great run down Teletraan!

 

[Jerengineer]

OK so after reviewing the days comments I have a nice list, here they are in no particular order. Its a lot to consider... I feel like I'm buying a car. (Actually some of these cost more than my first car!)

Bullpups
1) IWI Tavor TAR 21 5.56 $2700
http://frontierfirearms.ca/index.php/iwi-tavor-tar-21-223-non-restricted.html
2) FN-FS2000 5.56 $3400
https://shopquestar.com/shopping65/shopexd.asp?id=1431&bc=no
3) Norinco T97 NSR 5.56 $1000
http://www.theammosource.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_24_80&products_id=2118
4) Kel-Tec RFB 7.62 $2400
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/details/1782/Kel-Tec-RFB-308-Win-Semi-Auto-Rifle.aspx
5) China KBU-97A 5.56 $3000
http://www.tacticalimports.ca/type-88-sniper-p-4.html

Non-Bullpups
1) Rob Arms XCR-M 5.56/7.62 $2700
http://www.cabelas.ca/index.cfm?pageID=71&&section=1187&section2=1724&section3=1732&ID=42890
2) Swiss Arms 5.56/7.62 $3700
http://www.leverarms.com/swiss-arms-black-special.html
3) Springfield M1A 7.62 $1900
http://www.cabelas.com/semiautomatic-springfield-m1a-8482-rifles-1.shtml
4) Springfield M14 7.62 $4000+
http://armtac.com/category/m14-types/

 

[Steve Janes]

-40c is very cold. Temps this cold do weird things to firearms. Lube freezes and things start short stroking a lot. It would be interesting to hear from user's (or to see verified test data) of any other NR black rifles that have been verified to function in temps like this.

I know we have the Tavor functioning reliably at -25c (Verified by TV-Press Pass, also an article posted by plainSight Solutions has the Tavor apparently working in -60c)

I'm pretty sure we can trust the Swiss with the testing they've done, but I also remember a thread by WildPhil (I think that was the name) where he discussed shooting his Classic Green at -30c and had one FTF, then ran it dry (No lube) and had flawless function. That's if I remember it right.

Then there is the M-14 (J996 shot his in -35c) I'm not sure if I would call this a Black Rifle, but who cares, I want one.

Are there any others?