The Tavor HAS been tested in Cold Weather, and outside Canada. CDN is not the be all and end all of tavor users experience. 2 failures in cold weather DO NOT constitute any form of foundation on which to form a reasonable conclusion. If you want to see what the Tavor can do you will need to look OUTSIDE of Canada, end of Story. In which case you will find it meets all the OP's criteria, and just fine. Like you I think the Swiss is a better rifle, but the OP wants a tavor and it will do what he wants it do, along with dropping wolves at 300M the 5.56 or 223 is a very capable round especially on 'soft' targets. when the right ammo is used.
Tavor advice, Yes or No??
- Thread starter Jerengineer
- Start date
The Tavor HAS been tested in Cold Weather, and outside Canada. CDN is not the be all and end all of tavor users experience. 2 failures in cold weather DO NOT constitute any form of foundation on which to form a reasonable conclusion. If you want to see what the Tavor can do you will need to look OUTSIDE of Canada, end of Story. In which case you will find it meets all the OP's criteria, and just fine. Like you I think the Swiss is a better rifle, but the OP wants a tavor and it will do what he wants it do, along with dropping wolves at 300M the 5.56 or 223 is a very capable round especially on 'soft' targets. when the right ammo is used.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There's so many factors that can come into play, from cleaning and maintenance and the type of lubricant to the ammunition and magazines.
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
plainSight Solutions, posted an article claiming the Tavor functioned reliably at -60c. I edited my previous post to include this.
Your entitled to your opinion, but I still think the Tavor is inadequate for 300m competition shooting. And regardless of what you shoot it from, I wouldn't be hunting wolves with .223 beyond 100m. Even then shot placement would be crucial.
What is a good 10 shot service rifle group 300 yards bench? + what ammo. I would like to know where the bar is. What size groups does a bone stock swiss rifle shoot when using milsurp(i ask this because the swiss arms seems to be the most accurate service rifle)? I'm just thinking my Tavor is 1 aftermarket bull barrel contour away from sub MOA greatness at distance. (ok after market sniper trigger pack too !lol!)
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blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The Tavor is really an all-weather, all-environment combat rifle. I tend to agree that it's more of a MOY (minute-of-yote) rifle as opposed to MOA, and that it would be a challenge to be competitive in a 300m shooting environment.
Rumour has it there's a factory lightweight trigger that may be available at some point in the near future...
Quite possibly, although I'd be inclined to try out the new trigger group first.
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
- Accuracy
Fire a 24-round group, single-shot off the machine in a tunnel with a cold weapon at a range of 300m. The 50% windage and elevation dispersion shall not exceed a max. of 14x14 cm.
- Accuracy with Swiss ammunition Gw Pat.90
Checking at random rifles out of production, firing a 24round group with the Swiss ammunition Gw Pat.90 at a range of 300 m, off the machine, the 50% windage and elevation dispersion will be in the average only 7x7 cm. Any result from an individual weapon, will not exceed a max. dispersion of 11x11 cm.
And this is from CGN AR180Shooter: I went out shooting again today and was very impressed with the results. One group of 10 rounds was 2.5" @ 200 yards, and one group of 5 rounds was 1.2" @ 200 yards. An impressive 0.6 MOA.
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boss351cleveland
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Down by the river
I tried a very thin oil , tried AE 55gr , PMC 62gr green tips, Portuguese surplus .556 (best ammo ever!), ect .. Pmags ,LAR 10, USGI , IWI mags .. same issue .. If other people have good luck in cold weather my rifle must have had a problem .. With the Swiss the factors dont seem to matter as much , no matter the ammo, cleaning or using chinese mags , no issues .
"Fire a 24-round group, single-shot off the machine in a tunnel with a cold weapon at a range of 300m. The 50% windage and elevation dispersion shall not exceed a max. of 14x14 cm"
The Tavor can do that.....in inches!
Thank you for the great info. I see that is superior to what I can achieve with my Tavor. For comparison, I'll do some large groups tomorrow and post the results(I mean 10 and 24 shot groups.. hopefully they wont be that large)
TV-PressPass
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Mountains, Alberta
Man you guys have been busy on the keyboards today! I had to sit for 15 minutes just to catch up with the conversation!
I've been busy too . . .
Boss: interesting that you had damage to your bolt hold open too. See world??? I'm not so crazy!!
I've been busy too . . .
Boss: interesting that you had damage to your bolt hold open too. See world??? I'm not so crazy!!
Jerengineer
Member
- Location
- Okanagan, BC
Right on, please include the specs for your rifle.
Here is a real world 300 yard 15 shot group using American Eagle Bulk 55gr which is not match ammo. This was shot prone position, no benchrest, using an Acog (3.5X magnification) and an average shooter. Even so, it measures 7" discounting the one I dropped low (my fault). There were also two magazine changes during this string.
If I was into benchresting, had some match ammo and decided to use a hubble telescope, it would be tighter. You will note the first 5 are tight in center or damn near. The longer you try to hold position the more fatigued and wonky you get while shooting. Any rifle is only as good as the guy using it, even the Swiss
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Nothing wrong with this at all. Substitute some Black Hills 77-grain and a S&B, and I imagine you'd take an inch or two off that.
Rifle: Tavor Tar 21 (5.56) Bone Stock
Ammo: Norinco yellow box .233 Head stamped CJ 93
Distance: 275 Yards
Shot from bipod on bench
Weather 0 deg. no perceivable wind
I brought out 50 rounds.
10 rounds to sight in.
I did one 10 shot group, looked at it got mad and started over.
I did a straight 29 shot group. 1 round was fail to fire(1st one I have ever had in 1000 norinco fired in Tavor. Big dent on primer)
Size of 29 shot group = 4.1 MOA
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Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
Rifle: Tavor Tar 21 (5.56) Bone Stock
Ammo: Norinco yellow box .233 Head stamped CJ 93
Distance: 275 Yards
Shot from bipod on bench
Weather 0 deg. no perceivable wind
I brought out 50 rounds.
10 rounds to sight in.
I did one 10 shot group, looked at it got mad and started over.
I did a straight 29 shot group. 1 round was fail to fire(1st one I have ever had in 1000 norinco fired in Tavor. Big dent on primer)
Size of 29 shot group = 4.1 MOA
If there's a big dent in the primer, I would say it's an ammo issue, I would run it again and if it still didn't go bang then it's obviously the ammo, I'm working on my second crate of the Norc m193 yellow box, I have yet to have a FTF or light primer strike, but the ammo is definitely of chinese quality if ya catch my drift
For that group, Optics or irons? How big is the group? I get that you said it was 4moa, but how wide did the group measure at it's largest point?
Edit: Or does "Bone Stock" mean irons???
I missed that the first time
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sorry i was vague on purpose
I used optics
bone stock ment no changes to rifle ( especially assault trigger) blaxsun is right. trigger is a major stumbling point.
I wanted to show pics and go in to extensive detail, but I havent figured it out yet...thank you for posting my pic evolture... how?...
I think irons for me will be 20 moa...
Steve Janes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary/Ontario
Given J996 has been doing this with his Swiss for thousands of rounds, and you said this is your first time shooting at this range with your Tavor, I think your group looks pretty good considering.......
REVISED
His group he said was 14 rounds, prone, and measured about 7" at 300yds, yours is 27 rounds, benchrest, measured at 8.5" at 275yds.
Like I said before good grouping
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pic for above post:
thanks again evolture
29 group measured 11.4"
take away shot on the left and shot on the right,
27 shot group now measures 8.5" 3.1MOA
group width now 6.25"
group height now 8.25"
thanks!
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