Tavor ammo review

[Northpoint]

I have noticed and that is exactly my point, it doesn't cost almost $3000 down there so it's a lot easier pill to swallow for a guy that wants to try one out. Of course they like them, it's a nice well built compact rifle.
The Canadian price is why the Tavor is never going to run any other rifle out of the market. There are not that many people here that will spend close to $3000 on a rifle that only gives mediocre accuracy. I don't hunt big game with 223 because it's illegal in my province so the fact that it is non restricted means that if I'm going to own it I want better accuracy because it will get used for varmint and predator hunting. My HK, AR's and ACR all shoot better than the Tavor with a wider variety of ammo (not only one type) so the HK and ACR are better for me to use on rabbits, gophers, coyotes, and wolves.
It's a nice rifle but I won't pay that much for one when there are rifles available for less that will shoot as well or better.
They are nice rifles but are overpriced. I like bullpups and I like the Tavor so I'm not bashing the rifle itself, just saying that there are better options for the money in my opinion. If it was around $2000 I think it would be a fun little rifle to throw in the truck and take out in the bush and out quadding but I just don't see it being worth $2700.

I'm still waiting for someone to rebarrel one with a higher quality barrel and/or in 300 blackout.

The Tavor is not not worth $2700, nor do I think an ACR, SL8, Swiss Arms, XCR, T97, SU-16 etc. is worth the Canadian price.
You live in Canada? You're gonna PAY! You want NR? You're gonna PAY even more!
How do we know that Canadian distributors add a premium to black rifles with NR status? Just compare the prices of our Restricted firearms to the prices in the US. A lot closer eh?

I don't agree that there are better options, in its category. Is there a non-restricted, true CQB length, battle quality rifle that's less expensive?

 

[andrew3081]

I have noticed and that is exactly my point, it doesn't cost almost $3000 down there so it's a lot easier pill to swallow for a guy that wants to try one out. Of course they like them, it's a nice well built compact rifle.
The Canadian price is why the Tavor is never going to run any other rifle out of the market. There are not that many people here that will spend close to $3000 on a rifle that only gives mediocre accuracy. I don't hunt big game with 223 because it's illegal in my province so the fact that it is non restricted means that if I'm going to own it I want better accuracy because it will get used for varmint and predator hunting. My HK, AR's and ACR all shoot better than the Tavor with a wider variety of ammo (not only one type) so the HK and ACR are better for me to use on rabbits, gophers, coyotes, and wolves.
It's a nice rifle but I won't pay that much for one when there are rifles available for less that will shoot as well or better.
They are nice rifles but are overpriced. I like bullpups and I like the Tavor so I'm not bashing the rifle itself, just saying that there are better options for the money in my opinion. If it was around $2000 I think it would be a fun little rifle to throw in the truck and take out in the bush and out quadding but I just don't see it being worth $2700.

I'm still waiting for someone to rebarrel one with a higher quality barrel and/or in 300 blackout.

$2000 is a lot for a rifle down in the States.
Most rifles and handguns can be bought for around $500 to $1000.
And technically the tavor is roughly $600 more if you take into account the currency exchange rate from USD to CAD.
The gun market in America is a lot bigger so more supply mean lower prices.

The Tavor is not not worth $2700, nor do I think an ACR, SL8, Swiss Arms, XCR, T97, SU-16 etc. is worth the Canadian price.
You live in Canada? You're gonna PAY! You want NR? You're gonna PAY even more!
How do we know that Canadian distributors add a premium to black rifles with NR status? Just compare the prices of our Restricted firearms to the prices in the US. A lot closer eh?

I don't agree that there are better options, in its category. Is there a non-restricted, true CQB length, battle quality rifle that's less expensive?

Not true. Just look at some of the Ar15.

 

[Northpoint]

$2000 is a lot for a rifle down in the States.
Most rifles and handguns can be bought for around $500 to $1000.
And technically the tavor is roughly $600 more if you take into account the currency exchange rate from USD to CAD.
The gun market in America is a lot bigger so more supply mean lower prices.






Not true. Just look at some of the Ar15.

Comparing Core 15, DD, and LMT, prices seem to be very close on both sides of the border. Then compare many non-restricted black rifles. The non-restricted rifles typically cost more in Canada.
I know they most of the time have to tool up for a different barrel length, but still.

 

[cr5]

I don't agree that there are better options, in its category. Is there a non-restricted, true CQB length, battle quality rifle that's less expensive?

I have about the same cash into my ACR as a Tavor including the non restricted barrel and I know it will shoot better than most Tavor's and with a wider range of ammo. A couple extra inches doesn't make much difference to me, I don't do CQB matches and haven't gotten into 3-gun yet, if I do get into those I will use my 12 inch AR. For me I prefer my ACR and my HK with HERA gen 2 lower. The HK is a little muzzle heavy but not much worse than most other non restricted rifles and it will shoot better than any other 223 semi I've had my hands on other than the AR I just sold with ATRS match grade stainless barrel.
The Swiss Arms I had was not any more accurate than any other rifle I've played with and I don't know how it got the reputation for being so accurate. I won't even bother with the XCR as they are mostly a 4moa rifle other than the cherry picked groups guys post on here where they let it sit 5 minutes between shots and fluked out and got a 1-2moa group. T-97 is a Norinco and I was going to buy one but after all the QC issues I've read about and the fact that I just bought the ACR and SL8-4 I think I have enough semi auto 223's. SU-16? I've never played with one so no comment.

I like the Tavor but I'm satisfied with just playing with one once in a while when someone has one at the range and will let me run a couple mags through it. For me the rifles I have do everything I need and the Tavor doesn't do anything better other than it is shorter.

Correction, including my non restricted 223 match grade barrel (1:8 twist, wylde chamber) and my 6.8SPC spec II barrel and bolt and after selling the 12 inch barrel my ACR came with I have $3090 including taxes into it which is slightly more than a Tavor but I now have a rifle I can varmint, predator and deer hunt with.

 

[Northpoint]

I have about the same cash into my ACR as a Tavor including the non restricted barrel and I know it will shoot better than most Tavor's and with a wider range of ammo. A couple extra inches doesn't make much difference to me, I don't do CQB matches and haven't gotten into 3-gun yet, if I do get into those I will use my 12 inch AR. For me I prefer my ACR and my HK with HERA gen 2 lower. The HK is a little muzzle heavy but not much worse than most other non restricted rifles and it will shoot better than any other 223 semi I've had my hands on other than the AR I just sold with ATRS match grade stainless barrel.
The Swiss Arms I had was not any more accurate than any other rifle I've played with and I don't know how it got the reputation for being so accurate. I won't even bother with the XCR as they are mostly a 4moa rifle other than the cherry picked groups guys post on here where they let it sit 5 minutes between shots and fluked out and got a 1-2moa group. T-97 is a Norinco and I was going to buy one but after all the QC issues I've read about and the fact that I just bought the ACR and SL8-4 I think I have enough semi auto 223's. SU-16? I've never played with one so no comment.

I like the Tavor but I'm satisfied with just playing with one once in a while when someone has one at the range and will let me run a couple mags through it. For me the rifles I have do everything I need and the Tavor doesn't do anything better other than it is shorter.

Correction, including my non restricted 223 match grade barrel (1:8 twist, wylde chamber) and my 6.8SPC spec II barrel and bolt and after selling the 12 inch barrel my ACR came with I have $3090 including taxes into it which is slightly more than a Tavor but I now have a rifle I can varmint, predator and deer hunt with.

That's it. I really need to put some study time into the ACR. The 6.8 option, and the accuracy reports, I can't disregard any longer.

 

[cr5]

That's it. I really need to put some study time into the ACR. The 6.8 option, and the accuracy reports, I can't disregard any longer.

The 6.8 kit is not Bushmaster, I bought it through Questar and I don't think they are making any more. I also have to order a factory Bushmaster 223 bolt and have it opened up to fit the 6.8 case head (the cost of that is included in my all in price I have into the rifle).
Bushmaster still hasn't offered any conversion kits.

 

[One Lung Wonder]

Bump!

Well boys, I figured this is as good as any place to put formal reloading test data. The factory info is valuable, but I roll my own and figure that while I may or may not save money - I have a helluva lot more fun. Reloading for semi-autos is a challenge to say the least - with a bolt gun everything locks up solid. With the Tavor parts are sliding and moving and when you watch one being fired with a high speed camera that thin barrel whips around like a piece of spaghetti.

CAVEATS: Groups are 3 shots at 100 yards (my intellectual and moral superiors have taken umbrage at this, demanding 5 shot groups. Bah - I can't be bothered.) Weather conditions have been all over the map during this testing with brisk winds, blowing snow and my old, shot out nerves. It goes without saying that you young punks with better eyes and steadier hands would probably do much better. No chronographing yet...but I will be putting the RE15 loads across the chrony to see what they do. I will not bother chronographing loads that are not accurate.


Nevertheless, a brief re-cap of my reloading experience so far:

77 Gr Nosler BTHP
RP Brass
CCI primer
23.5 gr BL-C2 3.218" group
24.0 gr BL-C2 1.203" group
24.0 gr BL-C2 2.752" group

Comments: Wind, snow, cold - but still unimpressive
-----------------------------------------------------------

77 Gr Nosler BTHP
RP Brass
CCI primer
22.6 gr VARGET 3.137" group
23.0 gr VARGET 1.337" group
23.5 gr VARGET 2.292" group
23.9 gr VARGET 3.072" group MAX

Comments: well...that sucks....
-------------------------------------------------


WHICH BRINGS US TO TODAY!

77 Gr Nosler BTHP
RP Brass
CCI primer
22.3 gr Reloader15 1.322" group
22.8 gr Reloader15 1.242" group
23.2 gr Reloader15 1.392" group
23.7 gr Reloader15 2.217" group
24.1 gr Reloader15 1.401" group MAX

This batch with RE15 was shot today with one of those new big bags from the fellas at Wholesale Sports:


I am satisfied with the RE15, for some reason my guns tend to get along with it pretty well. I just don't tend to have a helluva lot of luck with Varget. I know it works like a hot damn for the cool kids and I've seen it...but I'll be damned if I can burn it in my guns. So far, RE15 it is for the big Noslers - which is good because I have 1000 round box full of 'em!



So now I figure I got the practice ammo nailed down, I can live with 1.5" groups and I have other powders I'll be trying - but I will come back to those. I want to play with other bullets now. Next up will be either the 60 gr. V-MAX by Hornady or the 60 gr Bergers! I can't wait to see what they do!

 

[saddlehills]

Flame me but really,
Why is it on a thread specifically aimed at the Tavor do we have people with nothing better to do than critique the firearm and it's owners?
I don't think anyone is claiming this firearm to be the best there ever has been or will be. We all have different interests and tastes.
If I was looking for long range accuracy I would have put my money somewhere else, so what.........
Quit bickering and get on with the good stuff........

 

[dizzy]

One lung wonder, find some Vhitavouri 530 use 62 gr pills and you will shrink those groups a bunch.

 

[One Lung Wonder]

VV530, eh? I will go visit the fellas at P&D and rustle some up!

I ran the Hornady 60 gr. VMAX's today and pooped my pants - the first group was something like 0.3 or 0.4"...then they opened up to 2.5~3" with steadily increasing doses of Benchmark. I was disappointed but not surprised, nothing I shoot that stuff in seems to like it. I will be trying BL-C2 next and if I can lay hands on VV530 I will try that too.

On the plus side today, shooting off my hind feet I put about 15 out of 20 into a 6" bull which is about what I was doing with my AR...so I am happy with that for now. I don't know if the new Timney trigger will clean up my benchrest shooting much but it should be a real help for offhand and position work...

 

[dizzy]

with the vhit powder all the cases landed in the same spot, i think had i put a cup on the ground they would have all landed in it. I and the guys i was with were amazed at that and the accuracy. . not sure if the stars were aligned or it was the ammo. At three different outings that ammo was always moa or better in one tavor. didn't try it in two.

 

[joe.danay]

Im sorry but i read enough threads about the norinco ammo that i will never fire that in my 3000 dollar rifle, that would be profoundly stupid of me!

I have tons of Norc ammo, but I will only feed it to my cheap Norc M4, which shoots 2moa with that combo. Good enough for practising drills and hitting the gongs. My new Tavor will be fed Winchester .223 because I have yet to find an answer whether or not the Norc ammo meets NATO or SAAMI specs.

 

[joe.danay]

Not suprising the Hornady Vmax worked well. I had results as good as my hand loads using them in my Remington 700 SPS Varmint, 3/4 moa. But every rifle likes different bullet/powder combos. Thanks for posting the info! I bought a bunch of the cheap winchester ammo, that looked like it performed horribly... Guess I'll sight in and hunt 'yotes with Vmax and just have fun with the Winchester.

 

[joe.danay]

5 round groups cause fatigue? Wow, just wow.

Reading some of these threads causes fatigue! The Tavor manual says to shoot 6 round groups and ignore the furthest round out, then use the remaining 5 to show your MPI.

Anyone get out there with some heavier handloads yet? I've heard of some good LR results with the C-7 using 68gn and 75gn bullets, which also uses a 1:7 twist, but a slighlty longer barrel.

 

[joe.danay]

Well I got out with my Nosler 77 gr. BTHP's brewed up with Varget yesterday and groups ran around three inches with one anomaly that was 1.5". Mind you it was high winds gusting around 50KPH and up so my offhand shooting sucked too. I am going to burn some RE15 with them but I am not hopeful, my black rifles with the 1:7 twists all seemed to prefer the 69 grain pills.

Good practice ammo I guess, and I have a box of a thousand of 'em here so I will just burn them up on that and keep on experimenting I guess. Life is good!

That's decent shooting under adverse conditions! Thanks for the data

 

[cr5]

One lung,
Why would you do load testing in wind and snow? You did manage a couple decent groups but I wouldn't waste my handloads testing in those conditions, you might have had a few more loads that performed much better on a calm day. I would make all those again and start over.
Also take the time to do 5 round tests. During my load testing with the ACR I had a couple groups with 3 almost touching but then 2 stretched it out to about 2.5-3 inches. I also make my loads for 223 at 0.2 grain powder intervals due to the small case capacity. It does make a noticeable difference.

If you found a load that will do under 2 inches I would be happy with that in a semi auto. You won't get much better, it's plenty good enough for most activities you will use the Tavor for.

 

[skinnadoor]

I will give some feedback when I put my bushnell 4-18x on and do some testing.

 

[Samson23]

I've been using PMC 55gr exclusively and haven't had a single failure in 2000+ rounds?

 

[Allstone]

8 to 9 inch groups with american eagle 55 grain at 100 yards. Its problematic!

Same...this is with cheap MFS 55 grain ammo though. Just tried some cheap Russian (forget the brand...red and green box) steel cased 62 grain ammo, and the groups were a little bit better. The Norinco 5.56 55 grain was roughly the same. Still looking...