Tavor vs. Swiss Arms

Steve Janes said:
Laugh2Laugh2Laugh2

WoW, this is entertaining.

SharpshooterJR and his magical XCR (that he decided to sell, LOL) were so full of $hit. The guy claimed to have put 20 rounds, consecutively mind you, into two separate sub half MOA 10 round groups, using 5 round magazines. I wonder if he will ever have the balls to make such a claim again? Basically he called his own BS. Then to make it even more entertaining, Beltfed chimes in and challenges the guy, then when the challenge is accepted, he conveniently "twists" his ankle, which some how keeps him from driving to a range to sit in a chair and shoot for 4-5 months.

Anytime someone brings that thread up, I can't help but laugh ;)
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Sorry I had to lmao. The cgn gods should be hitting me with a lazer from the sky soon for trolling because I brought it up. But really I just wanted to help beltfed not get into the same predicament as last time. God forbid you sprain your shooting ankle again. I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy.
 
Chago said:
Sorry I had to lmao. The cgn gods should be hitting me with a lazer from the sky soon for trolling because I brought it up. But really I just wanted to help beltfed not get into the same predicament as last time. God forbid you sprain your shooting ankle again. I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy.
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Laugh2Laugh2Laugh2

Don't worry, those lightning bolts will come for me first, I was a little more discreet about bringing it up but you caught on quick.
I loved that thread. I was skeptical as well but wasn't about to get my panties in a knot and challenge the guy to a shoot-off.
 
Was at the range this afternoon and got a chance to shoot a new Tavor :)
Only had iron sights on it so I didn't really shoot at much other than in the general direction of the target at 100yds but did pay closer attention to the trigger this time since it seems to be the most complained about part of the rifle and the last one I shot had the trigger spring mod. Trigger was very heavy but I didn't find it to be a problem, it broke clean and consistent. Recoil was smooth and gentle. Action was smooth. I was pretty impressed, hopefully the next time I get to play with one it has some decent glass and I can do a little shooting to check out the accuracy.
 
cr5 said:
Was at the range this afternoon and got a chance to shoot a new Tavor :)
Only had iron sights on it so I didn't really shoot at much other than in the general direction of the target at 100yds but did pay closer attention to the trigger this time since it seems to be the most complained about part of the rifle and the last one I shot had the trigger spring mod. Trigger was very heavy but I didn't find it to be a problem, it broke clean and consistent. Recoil was smooth and gentle. Action was smooth. I was pretty impressed, hopefully the next time I get to play with one it has some decent glass and I can do a little shooting to check out the accuracy.
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IMO that trigger effects accuracy. What I mean is its so tough you need to squeeze so hard and long. I don't care how good of a shooter you are but a trigger like that is going to effect your shooting ability.

Watch now I'm gonna get pics of guys with good groups using bags on front and back that are both adjustable with a wheel to adjust height. Sorry to me that's for sighting a rifle in not shooting and improving skill. Bipod or folded up pack back on front. That's bench shooting.
 
Chago said:
IMO that trigger effects accuracy. What I mean is its so tough you need to squeeze so hard and long. I don't care how good of a shooter you are but a trigger like that is going to effect your shooting ability.

Watch now I'm gonna get pics of guys with good groups using bags on front and back that are both adjustable with a wheel to adjust height. Sorry to me that's for sighting a rifle in not shooting and improving skill. Bipod or folded up pack back on front. That's bench shooting.
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When shooting a gun with a heavier/longer trigger all you do is squeeze a fraction at a time when the sight crosses the target then freeze when the sight strays off. You repeat this throughout the entire trigger pull & you would be surprised at the accuracy that can be achieved on a long/heavy trigger while using this simple discipline.
The Tavor platform is especially friendly to this technique as the weight distribution allows fatigue to be minimized throughout the entire trigger pull. If the Swiss Arms rifle had a trigger like the Tavor (which obviously it does not) you could see where this would be a more arduous task however pleasing results could also be achieved:~)
 
I'm just so confused as to why a trigger pack for the tavor hasn't been developed yet. It's gaining popularity quickly and its frankly the only thing that's bothering me about my rifle.
 
mikethebike said:
I'm just so confused as to why a trigger pack for the tavor hasn't been developed yet. It's gaining popularity quickly and its frankly the only thing that's bothering me about my rifle.
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Cause it takes time to properly develop something. The Tavor has only been available on the U.S. market for a few months.
 
Mikeschurman said:
I know this is a bit off topic, but what kind of accuracy are you guys with the 20" Swiss arms target getting? Are they comparable to a bolt action 223?
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Mine was no better than any other 223 semi auto and worse than a couple of the ones I have. I only shot American Eagle 55gr through it but my HK SL-8 and my 12.5 inch PWS AR both shoot tighter groups with the same ammo. I'm sure the Swiss was capable of better with different ammo but I wasn't impressed and traded it off.
Beautifully built rifle though and super smooth shooting.
 
Let's put them both in the dishwasher, the one that shoots 1.5moa after is declared the winner. I volunteer my Swiss Arms pending confiscation without compensation by the fuzz. Who's putting up the Tavor? :cool:
 
J996 said:
Let's put them both in the dishwasher, the one that shoots 1.5moa after is declared the winner. I volunteer my Swiss Arms pending confiscation without compensation by the fuzz. Who's putting up the Tavor? :cool:
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Tavors cant shoot 1.5 moa, regardless of the dishwasher, i know i own one, i doubt its even a two moa. Im shooting it at 4 moa, my wife at 3 moa, but she's a good shot.
 
cr5 said:
Mine was no better than any other 223 semi auto and worse than a couple of the ones I have. I only shot American Eagle 55gr through it but my HK SL-8 and my 12.5 inch PWS AR both shoot tighter groups with the same ammo. I'm sure the Swiss was capable of better with different ammo but I wasn't impressed and traded it off.
Beautifully built rifle though and super smooth shooting.
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Ididnt know the pws shot bulk ae .223 that good. Good for me to know, I'm actually looking for a high quality ar that shoots bulk ae very well
 
cr5 said:
Mine was no better than any other 223 semi auto and worse than a couple of the ones I have. I only shot American Eagle 55gr through it I'm sure the Swiss was capable of better with different ammo but I wasn't impressed and traded it off.
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Hmm, so would you make a hasty decision like that again if you ever had the chance of owning a finely crafted Swiss "Classic"?
I think most people would be so inclined to find something that worked in a situation in which you found yourself in. Take for example the .22lr, it's a great round!. You can buy it in bulk to go plinking with, however it may not be the most accurate round to shoot at the local silhouette match for instance. In that case you would try something a little more pricy. Heck try some $25 a box of the Eley match ammo & you would be amazed size of the groups & how they shrink. I have a single shot Match rifle & would I sell it after shooting some unacceptable groups with Remington Thunderbolt??? Not a chance, I would have fun trying different stuff until I find its sweet spot... then love it long time.
This may seem a little basic, but I base this response on the way you describe your experience with the Swiss Arms. It leads me to believe that you may not have been aware of this aspect of shooting at the time & lacked the knowledge/experience with gun/ammo combinations. It will not surprise me that you may get a little defensive of this & thats ok, just learn from what the past has taught you on this subject & maybe next time try a couple boxes of the more expensive stuff. Heck save some $ and reload, you would have been surprised what your Swiss Arms could have been capable of. I have owned mine now for only 2 years & she still surprises me when I decide to forego the road-trip to the woods & hit the range.
Have a nice day:~)

*EDIT* I almost forgot

To the OP... Take the Non-Restricted route. Even though I love the Swiss Arms, if I was in your situation and had a Restricted Swiss, I would go non-restricted Tavor.
The biggest factor being NON-RESTRICTED... YAY!
 
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HumanCulling said:
Hmm, so would you make a hasty decision like that again if you ever had the chance of owning a finely crafted Swiss "Classic"?
I think most people would be so inclined to find something that worked in a situation in which you found yourself in. Take for example the .22lr, it's a great round!. You can buy it in bulk to go plinking with, however it may not be the most accurate round to shoot at the local silhouette match for instance. In that case you would try something a little more pricy. Heck try some $25 a box of the Eley match ammo & you would be amazed size of the groups & how they shrink.
This may seem a little basic, but I base this response on the way you describe your experience with the Swiss Arms. It leads me to believe that you may not have been aware of this aspect of shooting at the time & lacked the knowledge/experience with gun/ammo combinations. It will not surprise me that you may get a little defensive of this & thats ok, just learn from what the past has taught you on this subject & maybe next time try a couple boxes of the more expensive stuff. Heck save some $ and reload, you would have been surprised what your Swiss Arms could have been capable of. I have owned mine now for only 2 years & she still surprises me when I decide to forego the road-trip to the woods & hit the range.
Have a nice day:~)

*EDIT* I almost forgot

To the OP... Take the Non-Restricted route. Even though I love the Swiss Arms, if I was in your situation and had a Restricted Swiss, I would go non-restricted Tavor.
The biggest factor being NON-RESTRICTED... YAY!
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I know all about a barrel liking and not liking certain ammo, I reload for numerous rifles and handguns. Problem is that I shoot too much to be able to feed a semi expensive ammo or keep up at the reloading bench.
I shoot primarily American Eagle 55gr so if a rifle can't shoot it decently the rifle has to go. My HK SL8-4, my 12.5 inch AR, and my 18 inch AR all shoot it just fine.
I do reload for my HK but it also shoots AE well so I can plink and have fun then pull out the handloads for showing just how accurately the riflemcan shoot or for varmint hunting.

So, while I liked the rifle, yes I would make the same decision.
 
cr5 said:
I know all about a barrel liking and not liking certain ammo, I reload for numerous rifles and handguns. Problem is that I shoot too much to be able to feed a semi expensive ammo or keep up at the reloading bench.
I shoot primarily American Eagle 55gr so if a rifle can't shoot it decently the rifle has to go. My HK SL8-4, my 12.5 inch AR, and my 18 inch AR all shoot it just fine.
I do reload for my HK but it also shoots AE well so I can plink and have fun then pull out the handloads for showing just how accurately the riflemcan shoot or for varmint hunting.

So, while I liked the rifle, yes I would make the same decision.
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An interesting approach to your rifle selection process. To each their own I guess. I hope you broke even at least on the rifle when selling it off.
The important thing is getting out there & shooting with something that works for you anyways, & it seems like you are happy doing just that with some nice tools to boot!
 
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Couple points on this:

The Tavor. The trigger is part of the problem. You can shoot a heavy trigger but you aren't going to get good results using the techniques you use for sub 3lbs trigger. It just doesn't work well. I learned on a 12lbs DAO pistol. Also bullpups have a strange and slightly violent release. I think it has to do with the link required.

Bag it and then dry fire. You will see the scope crosshair move off target as the release occurs. You need more support from the shooter when shooting this type of rifle.

I have a fullfield II 3-9x on my Tavor in peeperation for ammo testing. I've been dry firing for practice before going to the ammo tests and discovered this issue. When off hand it's not an issue as your body supports it and negates the release.

I also have a Swiss Arms black target with 6.5-20x conquest scope. I have had 1 Moa at 100 yards 5 rounds with 62grain American eagle. Not so good with 55. Also I had some 63 RUAG ammo that apparently was 223 not 5.56 GP90. It shot like crap. Expensive mistake I made about about 5 years ago. Unfortunately it soured me a bit as I ordered 1000 rounds of it on sale. Thinking I was getting the ammo it was designed for. I use it for getting on paper. Doesn't shoot well otherwise.

I also shoot a lot of dirty bird 55 in the value box as I bought a bunch of cans of it at Reliable's big sale a few years ago. It's plinking ammo only. Sight in, metal and minute of man fodder only. The PMC stuff seems to show the most promise for cheaper ammo. I need to get some 62 grain. pMC. I suspect the Tavor and Swiss arms will like it.

As a side note I bought my Swiss about 6 or 7 years ago. I chose it over the Tavor. Later after shooting a Tavor off hand I bought one and used the Swiss as a DM/Varmint style rifle. They are very different rifles. I like both for different reasons.

Looks like I have some ammo testing to do. Fortunately I have some time off too. I'll post up this stuff later. It's been in the works for over a year now but I finally have some time to make it happen.
 
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