My last comment - on the Tdsa website Scott says he has taught 400 people in the last 15 or so years - that's not a lot. Aaron who is the lead instructor for this advanced course is not listed on the Tdsa website and has no bio. Maybe it's just communication but we wasted a lot of time, forget about unused ammo, driving to and from Silverdale etc on Tdsa. Buyer beware. Working in all those close combat physical skills Aaron talks about takes time away from firearm instruction - hence my point about talk vs instruction
TDSA Canada 2016 schedule UPDATE
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just my 2cents on the topic, as far as I have been told tactical rifle 3 was a course that was developed at the request of students that have taken multiple classes and wanted more. It sounds like you have already made your mind up and are highly focused on a negitive perspective, which you are entitled to. I personally find that hard to believe given the fact I to have received training from Scott Aaron and team for years with nothing but the best experiences. I have trained in the US before as well as with ex-military and I can assure you TDSA is some the most unique and effective training hands down. I am certain there are hundreds of others that feel the same way.
But if it's not right for you train elsewhere, and if TDSA is right for you still train else where, get the most diverse amount of training and decide what's right for you.
Just my 2cents, but to all those who are unsure, ask around and I'm certain you won't be disappointed with what you hear about TDSA.
In regards to Scott training 300 students in 15years, that must be a typo,(miscommunication) he trains more than 100students a year. For god sakes, good luck getting into a class mid summer they are always sold out. (But don't take my word for wait until June and try to book a class
Mark18, it sounds like you were at a off class that was the exception to the rest.
Having had several classes under my belt, I hope you do give them another try!
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Fair comment. We all experience stuff differently. I was going on personal experience, the website that does not mention Aaron, the course write up that talks about "ax throwing", classroom, and all live shooting on one day. We need good training outfits up here. I know Tdsa has lots of friends. I hope they deliver on this advanced class. Being constructive, let's see a more specific course outline, an instructor bio, and a more accurate website.
tdsacanada
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tdsacanada
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kingair
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Don't know what to say about your experience. I've trained with Scott and his crew and had an enjoyable experience. Learned a lot from him that I could use in competition and operationally. I've trained in the US & Canada and his courses have been in line with the industry. Not every course is perfect, thats what AAR's are for. I've had some great take away points that I've passed on to my troops. Just to let you know TDSA even hosted a shoot day for CAF members no charge.
I don't know your level of your skills and I'm not hear to have a #### measuring contest. For those who know me, I've been around the game (CAFSAC, NSCC, ORA & OSA). I've taken his AP 1 & 2, Tac Riffle 1 & 2 & PR 1. You say 1000 rds is too much in a course, for CQB style shooting (Pistol or Carbine) thats good shooting. I've been on courses were we blew 5000 rds in a week.
It looks like you had a bad experience, but did you bring it up to the instructors?
I don't know your level of your skills and I'm not hear to have a #### measuring contest. For those who know me, I've been around the game (CAFSAC, NSCC, ORA & OSA). I've taken his AP 1 & 2, Tac Riffle 1 & 2 & PR 1. You say 1000 rds is too much in a course, for CQB style shooting (Pistol or Carbine) thats good shooting. I've been on courses were we blew 5000 rds in a week.
It looks like you had a bad experience, but did you bring it up to the instructors?
We filled out an evaluation form very politely. I do not believe these folks were trying to scam anyone they just loved to hear themselves talk. When I read the course outline, I had concerns. I am an NRA instructor, and have been for 7 years. I do not teach up here and do not compete with Tdsa. I am employed full time in a whole other industry. My friend took 2 other Tdsa courses and had the same thoughts.
Let's not beat up on these guys. It's great that there are folks out there teaching the safe use of toys so that they don't just sit in our safes. But, focus is important. In a level 3 Tac carbine course with such an ambitious agenda, be specific about the outline and maybe "axe the ax throwing"!
Let's not beat up on these guys. It's great that there are folks out there teaching the safe use of toys so that they don't just sit in our safes. But, focus is important. In a level 3 Tac carbine course with such an ambitious agenda, be specific about the outline and maybe "axe the ax throwing"!
I guess everyone's experience can be different.
I've taken every single one of the TDSA courses, some multiple times for skill refreshment (AP2 three times, TR2 twice, DS2 twice) and have thoroughly enjoyed every one of them. On their courses I have never shot less than 700 rounds in a day. Safety has never been an issue.
Looking forward to the new courses, as I was one of the people that requested them.
I've taken every single one of the TDSA courses, some multiple times for skill refreshment (AP2 three times, TR2 twice, DS2 twice) and have thoroughly enjoyed every one of them. On their courses I have never shot less than 700 rounds in a day. Safety has never been an issue.
Looking forward to the new courses, as I was one of the people that requested them.
I just spoke with Scott personally on the phone (the other great thing about these guys, they are available not just a mysterious person on the other end of an email) I was curious about some of the concerns you mentioned above...he clarified it all for me, in a nut shell it went like this:
Tactical Rifle 3 was a class that was requested by students who wanted more, it's name TR3 is deceiving only in the sense that it doesn't only focus on carbine, however it focuses on the areas that have not been addressed in TR1 & TR2, which are elements that most shooters never learn, is open hand defense and offense, with a knife, hawk, or stick/baton. Scott said this is paramount because a pistol or carbine is useless if you can't get to it, so being able to fight to your primary or secondary is vital. He made a lot of sense, he added that he does not expect to turn anyone into hand-to-hand combat experts however to provide the students with a different perspective on how they train and prepare for worst case scenarios. Many of his students are retired and active military/police/security contractors and they actually need these skills in their day to day jobs.
When I asked him what inspired this course and its approach he told me, so many students had asked for a next level class and he said he would work on one. So over the past couple years of brainstorming and feedback from students he thought he would develop a course that was about more than just shooting! Anyone that knows Scott, knows he has a quite extensive martial arts background, training with the Gracie Jui Jitsu family before it was cool, He had studied under Francois Fong and countless others to build his base of skills in JuiJitsu, Tae Kwon Do, Wing Chun, and Jeet Kune Do to name a few. The martial arts base and philosophy is what had inspired all the TDSA courses in fundamentals. He said this course is not for the faint of heart, students will be pushed so to be ready for it. He however apologize that the course description had confused some people he said he has his team rebuilding the website and adding a bunch of new videos and tools to provide the best experience for his students, the new content isn't quite ready but he said it will be shortly and he hopes that it helps give everyone a better understanding as to what to expect for all courses with TDSA. Scott told me he is dedicated to students when it comes to training and he takes it extremely serious as he recognizes that some students use these skills to protect themselves and to save lives.
All this in a 30min. conversation on a Sunday, he said there are more exciting things to come, he should be releasing soon through the email list, sounds exciting, I am sold. I look forward to reviewing the Tactical Rifle 3 when I take it!
Thanks Scott for taking the time to discuss it with me, keep up the great work.
Unfortunate that you had a bad experience – can’t say that I have experienced anything remotely similar at any of the several TDSA classes I have taken. All classes started right on time.
After the initial intros, safety talks and timed assessments - we got right into the lessons and shooting. Always had very good instructor to student ratios. When at the line we were always one-on-one with an instructor so they could ensure we were shooting safely and they could provide feedback and guidance on any adjustments to suit the particular skill set we were working on. Regarding the suggested round counts – they are pretty accurate and I would suggest you bring extra. If one does not spend excessive time chit-chatting at the reload table than there is no reason not to go through a serious amount of amo. No issue regarding safety – they had strict rules that everyone needed to follow and everyone watched out for each other to ensure we had a safe day at the range.
Website is a bit outdated regarding Scott’s background – as noted previously he has trained hundreds of students over the years and had the opportunity to shoot and train with many world class shooters. He is passionate about teaching shooting skills within a safe and open/fun environment – that has been my experience from all of the courses I have taken with TDSA.
Aaron is highly skilled and I have personally found him to be a great teacher – very attentive to the details and genuinely strives to ensure everyone gains the skills being taught.
Must admit that when I initially started into this sport and was researching TDSA I focused more on the testimonials versus the bios – more interested in the learning experience versus a long list of potentially outdated skills or irrelevant resumes. Can confirm that their website testimonials reflect the experience.
My experiences have been very positive and my shooting skills have significantly improved – all within a safe, open and fun environment. Looking forward to the new courses being offered this year!
P.S.: Regarding Tac Rifle III – obviously there was interest shown by some of their regular customers for a course that included a few other skills beyond shooting an AR. Don’t quite understand why you feel the need to criticize – obviously this is not a course that interests you.
Between Tac Rifle 1 and 2 they cover a diverse and intense AR shooting skillset which is likely aligned with what most students are looking for.
After the initial intros, safety talks and timed assessments - we got right into the lessons and shooting. Always had very good instructor to student ratios. When at the line we were always one-on-one with an instructor so they could ensure we were shooting safely and they could provide feedback and guidance on any adjustments to suit the particular skill set we were working on. Regarding the suggested round counts – they are pretty accurate and I would suggest you bring extra. If one does not spend excessive time chit-chatting at the reload table than there is no reason not to go through a serious amount of amo. No issue regarding safety – they had strict rules that everyone needed to follow and everyone watched out for each other to ensure we had a safe day at the range.
Website is a bit outdated regarding Scott’s background – as noted previously he has trained hundreds of students over the years and had the opportunity to shoot and train with many world class shooters. He is passionate about teaching shooting skills within a safe and open/fun environment – that has been my experience from all of the courses I have taken with TDSA.
Aaron is highly skilled and I have personally found him to be a great teacher – very attentive to the details and genuinely strives to ensure everyone gains the skills being taught.
Must admit that when I initially started into this sport and was researching TDSA I focused more on the testimonials versus the bios – more interested in the learning experience versus a long list of potentially outdated skills or irrelevant resumes. Can confirm that their website testimonials reflect the experience.
My experiences have been very positive and my shooting skills have significantly improved – all within a safe, open and fun environment. Looking forward to the new courses being offered this year!
P.S.: Regarding Tac Rifle III – obviously there was interest shown by some of their regular customers for a course that included a few other skills beyond shooting an AR. Don’t quite understand why you feel the need to criticize – obviously this is not a course that interests you.
Between Tac Rifle 1 and 2 they cover a diverse and intense AR shooting skillset which is likely aligned with what most students are looking for.
Great points!! I also had the same perspective about Aaron's dedication to the students, if anyone ever speaks to Scott, Aaron or any of the team, they exude qualities you would expect in good coaches/teachers, confident but humble, respectful and approachable, open minded, they never feel their way is the only way! You recognize quickly that they are good people who truly care, you are not just a number or a pay cheque to them, trust me I have trained with instructors that made me feel that way, and I don't mean to be ironic but the worst one happened to be an NRA instructor, he knows who he is; I am a professional so I won't mention any names. Shooting and martial arts are different disciplines but they share several commonalities, and if you are military or law enforcement than you know first hand, distance is your friend, but the reality of it is you aren't always able to control your environment, so if you get caught off guard (which is what usually happens in real life situations) your gun-ONLY skills aren't going to help you, unless you're only battling an ipsc target, and paper don't strike back!!! So if you are planning to engage only paper then it sounds like Crossman is right, Tactical Rifle 3 isn't the course for you.
All of this is great. Maybe Aaron's bio can be posted as well on the revised website as well as a clear description of courses offered. That is what I am saying. Three of us joined a day long course that also turned out to have nothing to do with the class description. No personal jabs intended. Tactical rifle does not equal the stuff mentioned above.
Just weighing in on all that's been said, having instructors that are experts in their field doesn't guarantee a successful experience. Scott and his TDSA crew not only excel in their firearm knowledge and expertise, they provide a fun but absolutely safe learning environment that shooters of all levels gain confidence and competence. The pace is challenging, but not overwhelming, and the round count is whatever you feel comfortable with. If the class needs to be slowed down or even backtracked to make it right, so be it.
Best of all, Scott is completely accessible, not just during, but before and well after for any questions or concerns that one may have. As we have seen, feedback from students, whether it be suggestions for new courses or enhancing the existing ones, are acted on.
Finally, the quality of a product or service can be judged on return business, and if you ask anyone attending TDSA courses, chances are they have been here many times before.
Best of all, Scott is completely accessible, not just during, but before and well after for any questions or concerns that one may have. As we have seen, feedback from students, whether it be suggestions for new courses or enhancing the existing ones, are acted on.
Finally, the quality of a product or service can be judged on return business, and if you ask anyone attending TDSA courses, chances are they have been here many times before.
tdsacanada
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Many thanks to all for the continued support.
TacticalSpirit
New member
Hello everyone I have been a student with TDSA for about 2 years and LOVED EVERY SECOND of learning from the time I entered. It has helped my skills sharpen like anything and I am so grateful to each and everyone of these instructors for helping me reach a high level of performance. I look forward to the new upcoming courses which I have already signed up for and really looking forward to a fresh year of gaining knowledge
kingair
Regular
Mark18, if you had concerns with the course, did you call or email them prior to signing up?
You say that you're an NRA instructor of 7 years, so what? I have several instructor course too but don't throw it out on the forum to help validate myself as someone that needs credibility. Why the course with TDSA? I choose it because I wanted to learn new stuff, I checked my instructir stuff at the door before coming to class. You speak on behalf of one friend and then another friend, they should speak for themselves then.. You say lets not beat up on these guys but you continue moving this thread. It seems your issue is with one instructor if so, you should direct at that person and not an organization. Because I've met a lot of tool boxes who were also NRA Instructors but I don't hold it against the NRA.
You say that you're an NRA instructor of 7 years, so what? I have several instructor course too but don't throw it out on the forum to help validate myself as someone that needs credibility. Why the course with TDSA? I choose it because I wanted to learn new stuff, I checked my instructir stuff at the door before coming to class. You speak on behalf of one friend and then another friend, they should speak for themselves then.. You say lets not beat up on these guys but you continue moving this thread. It seems your issue is with one instructor if so, you should direct at that person and not an organization. Because I've met a lot of tool boxes who were also NRA Instructors but I don't hold it against the NRA.
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