Tell Me SOMEONE Else Saw This??

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timothydgordon said:
I don't really care what the personal thoughts of police constables are now and I'm sure I won't care about their concerns in politics when I'm a member either.

It comes down this: NO MORE ILLEGAL GUNS. Lastly, gun registry is a great idea, it stops many people who should not be allowed to have a gun from.. having a gun! Also, it stops people from driving around with their guns, an ATT is a good idea!
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No more illegal guns! I totally agree and so does everyone else.

The registry has nothing to do with "gun registry is a great idea, it stops many people who should not be allowed to have a gun from.. having a gun!". Your background check does that after you finish and pass the test.
The registry is for people who have been granted permission to purchase legal firearms. The firearm is registered after the purchase.

"Also, it stops people from driving around with their guns, an ATT is a good idea" so how does that affect the criminal with the illegal gun in his possesion from running around?

Laws should be made for criminals not law abidding people.

Another thing is... when someone (not you personally I mean in general) who doesnt know something on a particular subject becomes informed by a media program and believes the hype is one thing. Now how about when someone actually knows something and the media tries to swindle you. You catch them and retort. My point... All the other W5/CBC programs etc. I have watched in the passed to which I was not educated in the subject, sure suckered me in good.

Remember the media needs ratings like tv shows or they will be pulled from the air.
I bet "they" can put together a good episode that states and proves the the roswell crash in New Mexico had something to do with 9/11, and people would buy it too.
 
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Once more again - NO personal attacks.


timothy is not resorting to personal attacks - those who are will be finding out the warning system.

As for our esteemed regsitry afficionado. You obviously dont understand the US system. All new guns in the US are yellow sheeted - in the same manner that a Canadian firearms business keeps a record. To buy a handgun requires a NCIC - a in state DL, and to skip the waiting period a CCW valid.

Yes there are a lot of guns that get smuggled into Canada -- the issue is DEMAND in Canada, and ineffective border controls.
You as a Canadian citizen have NO right to demand anything out of the US. I suggest that scrapping the long gun registry and the billions of dollars wasted with it - one could have made a larger and more effective CBSA, and increase police presence on the street where it is effective - not in an office chasing papework.

Seconldy a lot of "un papered" guns in Canada have also been the result of crooked Canadian firearms businesses.


Your claim that firearms are more dangerous than cars falls flat when you look at the deaths and injuries caused by both, secondly if guns where so "inherently dangerous" as you seem to beleive, why is it that the SHooting Sports have one of the lowerst insurance rates? SIMPLE: Guns are safe - people are dangerous...
 
timothydgordon said:
To clear this up what I mean is I think it's a great idea, the reigstry, I'm not saying it's totally fair and that people with legal possesion, leading legal lives are being targeted in a nasty way. I just really, truly believe that if you want to own a gun legally you should have to have a special license, you should be tested, you should have a background check, you should have to be approved. Thats all, that it's a good way to go to control gun sales. If Georgia had this, all these people wouldn't be buying guns and then selling them illegally! It just wouldn't happen that way. Yes, guns would be bought and sold illegally but not in the sheer volume.
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Why wouldn't illegal guns be sold in volume. Look at the market that is created by restricting ownership of firearms. All that does is make smugglers rich. It cannot prevent illegal violent acts. The one thing all massacres have in common is that the victims were always unarmed.

The point is that the bad guys - the guys you should be concerned about -already have their guns. Those who don't can apparently break into electronic government systems to find out who owns gun collections and where they live. Therefore the registry puts all gun owners at risk. Don't believe it, look at all the collectors targeted by gun thieves over the last few years in TO. Consider the number of private residences in Toronto, how was it the bad guys knew which residences to break in to. Either the registry was electronically compromised, or an employee was bribed or coerced out of the information. Either way, the registry leads to private citizens being targeted by criminals, who then in turn use the previously legally owned guns to kill innocent people. The registry should be #### canned for that reason alone.

If you are seriously concerned about the rise of violent crime in Canada, get behind the CCW movement. A cop can only respond after the fact, but if the bad guy thinks he might be facing an armed citizen filled with righteous indignation, he might prefer to get a job.
 
"It comes down this: NO MORE ILLEGAL GUNS. Lastly, gun registry is a great idea, it stops many people who should not be allowed to have a gun from having a gun."

The registry has nothing to do who has a gun and those who shouldn't have one. That is within the purview of the licensing system and the background checks associated with it. In other words your PAL is your license and this whole subject should have been covered in your PAL/RPAL courses.
 
timothydgordon : I think it should be pointed out that firearms are 16th century technology, basically a piece of pipe open at one end, and a spring-loaded glorified nail at the other, add some way of holding it, and some way or releasing the spring loaded nail to detonate the cartridge's primer, and you have a firearm. Trying to "control" ANY tool is an exercise in futility and a waste of taxpayer's money, as other have pointed out. What needs to happen is for us to develop an EFFECTIVE way of figuring out who should NOT have access to firearms (or any other "weapons" for that matter) because they are inclined to commit crimes using said "weapons" either to intimidate, or to inure/kill people, and keep a close eye on them, and take away THOSE people and lock them up if they misbehave, we don't have that yet.
 
I was told by a gove employee, that the system in place could be hacked by the most elementry of hackers. This was quite a while ago when it was new.

Good point made, with gun collectors being robbed. I guess the criminals came up with really good guesses....and got lucky.
Every single time.
Again I agree they should ban the registry under the privacy act alone.
 
How are guns different from knifes, cars or other tools? The only difference is that cars and knifes kill WAY more people than guns. Anyone can get a knife, you can even get one from the dollar store! No need for a permit, background check nothing. No wonder criminals use knifes about twice as often handguns often to commit murder. Don't believe me look up the statistics yourself!
I remember reading the other day that this year in Ontario (IIRC) 840 people (and counting) died in car accidents. How many people do you think were shot in ON this year I doubt more than 1/10 of that. And how many people have said “Cars kill people, lets get cars of the street“ None as far as I know, yet plenty of people what to ban guns. Maybe that has to do with a fact that everyone has a car or knives and banning these objects will make peoples lives a little less convenient...
And people aren’t afraid of guns they’re afraid of the unknown; I bet if you asked people who are anti-gun about their experience with firearms you’d find that none of them have any!
 
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timothydgordon said:
I don't believe it will stop but I believe it will make them FAR harder to get, and lets face it YES, it will remove many firearms from the streets.
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It won't stop ####. Looking at states in the US (I've reviewed numerous scholarly studies on the subject), the ones with tighter gun laws tend to have a higher rate of gun crime than those with looser ones. Similarly, rates of ownership in Canada have absolutely no correlation to crimes committed with firearms here either.
 
phatns2pid said:
It won't stop s**t. Looking at states in the US (I've reviewed numerous scholarly studies on the subject), the ones with tighter gun laws tend to have a higher rate of gun crime than those with looser ones. Similarly, rates of ownership in Canada have absolutely no correlation to crimes committed with firearms here either.
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its unfortunate that the general public does not know this.

remember one thing Ausieland.
murder went up 350% and B&E's up 250% in the first three months

HITLER remember him
 
I didn't mean ATT's stop criminals, I mean the general public. I mean ATT's only as opposed to Conceal and Carry Permits or the ability at all to go anywhere with your gun except from home to the range and back!

Again, the ONLY reason I agree with the registry system is because it seems to me and what I know of how they sell guns in Georgia far superior. As a note, I demand nothing of the U.S. government however, am outspoken when I see an issue that I believe other people will care about. I can be outspoken of any issue in any country so don't you dare try and push me away from this topic. We as firearms owners should be especially sensitive of the dynamics in these situations. To me it's a matter of giving this issue voice, there is a great voice on it's opposition called the NRA. I think someone needs to represent a voice of reason and not an extremity on either side, no gans shouldn't be banned, they should be harder to buy; I believe if they are harder to buy illegal gun sales will plummit. This is something I believe, so no, don't tell me I'm wrong especially when you have nothing to prove it with except your own opinon, which, I care to hear however, not in such a rude manner.

Once more I will relate the FACTS: Two dozen or so arms dealers are responsible for 57% of KNOWN weapons possesed illegally, regardless of being used in a crime or not. This does not count the thousands more out there that these same arms dealers have sold that have been resold illegally that have not yet been caught.

Does that proof not make sense to anyone??? STOP the arms dealers who are selling guns to people who resell them illegally! How do you do that, make it far harder to get a firearm for bad people, LIKE we have in Canada? Does not a single poster out there see the parallel between what I'm saying and what is happening out there?

In closing, I believe it is popular to critcize the gun registry, it was popular when it came out, all the money spent, well the message did go to parliament several times but our government decided to stick with the registry, why politicians were asked? It's working, it's also popular to speculate on statistics without backing up your statements, since cracking down on firearm purchases violent gun deaths in Canada have gone down. Watch the Fifth Estate and then chime in on this subject, unless you can reference specific statistics and the show, I don't want to hear it and not because I'm playing "hear no evil" but because I care not for the harmful, empty attacks at my expense with no tact on the part of my fellow Canadian Gun Nuts.
 
timothydgordon said:
Well thank you, as far as the alternative to freedom, that is truly a scary thing but I have to ask does anyone really feel we are at risk of going this direction or that we're already heading down that path? I feel my freedoms are well intact, I know many people feel especially with these firearm restrictions that they're freedoms are not intact but I've always looked at "Gun Control" in Canada (and by the way I don't use the word "Gun" often because it carries to many negative feelings amongst firearm enthusiasts and not) as something that was introduced like car licenses, it's not your right here to bear arms but you are allowed to enjoy shooting and thats what I want, I don't want a conceal and carry permit, I just want the ability to shoot with my friends, go down to the range for fun, have competitions, and just enjoy shooting as a sport!
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In a state like Vermont, almost anyone can obtain a pistol, and there is no special license required to carry--anyone can carry a gun around. Vermont ranks in the #1 or #2 position of LEAST # of violent gun crimes in the US.
More guns is what we need, and the ability to carry them. You think some gangbanger is gonna pull a piece anywhere in public with the chance that a dozen people are gonna gun him down legally?
 
timothydgordon said:
I didn't mean ATT's stop criminals, I mean the general public. I mean ATT's only as opposed to Conceal and Carry Permits or the ability at all to go anywhere with your gun except from home to the range and back!

Again, the ONLY reason I agree with the registry system is because it seems to me and what I know of how they sell guns in Georgia far superior. As a note, I demand nothing of the U.S. government however, am outspoken when I see an issue that I believe other people will care about. I can be outspoken of any issue in any country so don't you dare try and push me away from this topic. We as firearms owners should be especially sensitive of the dynamics in these situations. To me it's a matter of giving this issue voice, there is a great voice on it's opposition called the NRA. I think someone needs to represent a voice of reason and not an extremity on either side, no gans shouldn't be banned, they should be harder to buy; I believe if they are harder to buy illegal gun sales will plummit. This is something I believe, so no, don't tell me I'm wrong especially when you have nothing to prove it with except your own opinon, which, I care to hear however, not in such a rude manner.

Once more I will relate the FACTS: Two dozen or so arms dealers are responsible for 57% of KNOWN weapons possesed illegally, regardless of being used in a crime or not. This does not count the thousands more out there that these same arms dealers have sold that have been resold illegally that have not yet been caught.

Does that proof not make sense to anyone??? STOP the arms dealers who are selling guns to people who resell them illegally! How do you do that, make it far harder to get a firearm for bad people, LIKE we have in Canada? Does not a single poster out there see the parallel between what I'm saying and what is happening out there?

In closing, I believe it is popular to critcize the gun registry, it was popular when it came out, all the money spent, well the message did go to parliament several times but our government decided to stick with the registry, why politicians were asked? It's working, it's also popular to speculate on statistics without backing up your statements, since cracking down on firearm purchases violent gun deaths in Canada have gone down. Watch the Fifth Estate and then chime in on this subject, unless you can reference specific statistics and the show, I don't want to hear it and not because I'm playing "hear no evil" but because I care not for the harmful, empty attacks at my expense with no tact on the part of my fellow Canadian Gun Nuts.
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Arms dealers? You mean like China, or Somallia? Mabey Syria or Iran??
#######

I believe if they are harder to buy illegal gun sales will plummit. This is something I believe, so no, don't tell me I'm wrong especially when you have nothing to prove it with except your own opinon, which, I care to hear however, not in such a rude manner.
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If guns are harder to buy, does that make them any harder to steal?
#######
 
Hitzy said:
In a state like Vermont, almost anyone can obtain a pistol, and there is no special license required to carry--anyone can carry a gun around. Vermont ranks in the #1 or #2 position of LEAST # of violent gun crimes in the US.
More guns is what we need, and the ability to carry them. You think some gangbanger is gonna pull a piece anywhere in public with the chance that a dozen people are gonna gun him down legally?
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Now THAT is an interesting point, I don't believe in vigilante justice at all but what an incredible difference to Georgia except... when you compare ogranized and gang related crime. Also, the social dynamics of Vermont to Georgia are incredibly different, did you know that Vermont has the 2nd highest proportion of caucasian residents then any other state? Vermont also is economically different, vastly therefore making me wonder if the gun related violence has nothing to do with firearm sales practice.
 
Hitzy, how dare you call me an #######, arms dealers are indeed those who sell them. Anyone whether it be a manufacturer, distributor or point of sale gun shop.
 
timothydgordon said:
Now THAT is an interesting point, I don't believe in vigilante justice at all but what an incredible difference to Georgia except... when you compare ogranized and gang related crime. Also, the social dynamics of Vermont to Georgia are incredibly different, did you know that Vermont has the 2nd highest proportion of caucasian residents then any other state? Vermont also is economically different, vastly therefore making me wonder if the gun related violence has nothing to do with firearm sales practice.
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I'm getting a little concerned about how you interpret things.......WHO said or inferred that 'vigilante justice' exists in Vermont? By your twisted logic you'll soon be inferring that Vermont has less gun problems because it is mainly Caucasion. Let me call you a 'SEAGULL' you seem to be either squawking or sh1ttin'.....................
 
p.s. anyone who believes it's not Canada's position to demand anything of the U.S. government should hear it directly from the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearm's mouth, he does say on the Fifth Estate our government should indeed demand it from the U.S. government, it is Canadian lives and law after all.

Plus, it's the Blue Steel Highway, it has a name! It's incredibly infamous, and everyone is O.K. with this?
 
Also, the comparison to a seagull, just rude. I'm not offended at all, just saddened by your lack of tact, seriously, like what do you get out of saying that to me?
 
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