The 223 as a viable big game round.

Mr. Friendly said:
how many shots to drop the BB?
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Black bears I’ve shot with a .223 were all one shot kills. No real visible difference than say a 30-06

Mr. Friendly said:
including Moose? Elk? or flip over to something a bit more wiley like Black Bear?

I don't consider deer to be 'big'. :yingyang:
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Mr. Friendly said:
I'm inquiring what Gatehouse classifies as big game, not what is legal. what looks good on paper does not always translate well into real life.

I saw that he has taken black bear...but I wonder if it was a bang flop or if he had to follow up.
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Legal to hunt elk and moose with a .223 in BC. It’s not common though. A .223 wouldn’t be my first choice for these larger animals but it will kill them too.
 
Mr. Friendly said:
how many shots to drop the BB?
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I'm not Gatehouse, however I have shot several head of big game with a 22CF. Including a fair number of black bears, and I don't recall any of them requiring multiple rounds to die. I do however recall one being shot with a 40gr vmax that died so fast on a dead run that he slid on his chin for a few yards. Neither the Hammer of Thor nor a lightning strike would have killed that boar any faster. And no, it wasn't a CNS hit. (Note, I don't intend to expound the virtues of the vmax line as a hunting bullet for big game, that one just happened to be handiest and I needed a rifle in a hurry so it got the nod.)

I smacked one rather large fall black bear with a 75gr Amax a few years ago, that laid down for the long nap about 3' from where he had been standing when the Amax centered the shoulder blade. And exited. I have a pic someplace in my phone of the remains of that bullet after I dug it out of a dead aspen tree behind where he had been standing.

I have seen several black bears killed over the decades, and I can recall a few that required multiple shots over the years. Cartridge choice has much less to do with killing an animal than people want (need?) to believe. A bullet put in the right place the first time will have a much more favorable result than one put in the wrong spot.

I think if everyone was required to use smaller cartridges and bullets to start with, with the admonishment that placement and bullet choice was the most important factor, then the mindset that many people have of "using a big enough cartridge to offset a bad hit" would be greatly reduced.

Most of my friends have hunting age children. And I can't think of any of them that DON'T have a story of an animal NOT shot at by a child, because in my circle all of my hunting companions are enthusiasts. And consequently they have instructed their kids on shot placement and (usually) to wait for a broadside shot to ensure the best chance of success. I can't think of any of them that this fall didn't have deer get away without a shot fired, due to the kids waiting for a broadside shot, as that's what they had been told to do. And a couple of those had deer in close, quartering in, that were a slam dunk shot for the kid, and the cartridge, but the kid waited "cause dad said to shoot them broadside". Point being, you don't see ego in kids, or kids that take shots that they shouldn't "cause I'm shooting a 338 UltraMag, it'll kill'em even if it misses the right spot"...
 
My take on the topic:

A buddy I shoot with, have seen in many hunting scenarios, and whom I trust for marksmanship and common sense asks about the 223 for deer.

My answer: "Absolutely", followed by an entertaining in its own right conversation about the right pill, right range, etc etc...

Someone on the internet asks about 223 for deer.

My answer: "Hard no".
 
I have seen bears, deer and elk shot with 5.56. They were all dead on the spot or shortly thereafter. I have seen big stuff shot with big stuff and it ran away too. No rhyme or reason sometime.
 
Always the same. Big city, weekend warrior hunters condemning the 5.56 and the good ol' country boys who have probably fed their families for years on deer shot with a 22 Cooey, trying to educate them. A 5.56 in the heart/lungs is deadly on deer. End of story. I have ruined too much meat with a 30-06 and prefer the 5.56. Plenty for the job.
 
You nailed it heliace! City slicker, weekend warrior telling you not to believe your eyes.
... .224 has made a lot burger and pot roast in canada!
 
KodiakHntr said:
I'm not Gatehouse, however I have shot several head of big game with a 22CF. Including a fair number of black bears, and I don't recall any of them requiring multiple rounds to die. I do however recall one being shot with a 40gr vmax that died so fast on a dead run that he slid on his chin for a few yards. Neither the Hammer of Thor nor a lightning strike would have killed that boar any faster. And no, it wasn't a CNS hit. (Note, I don't intend to expound the virtues of the vmax line as a hunting bullet for big game, that one just happened to be handiest and I needed a rifle in a hurry so it got the nod.)

I smacked one rather large fall black bear with a 75gr Amax a few years ago, that laid down for the long nap about 3' from where he had been standing when the Amax centered the shoulder blade. And exited. I have a pic someplace in my phone of the remains of that bullet after I dug it out of a dead aspen tree behind where he had been standing.

I have seen several black bears killed over the decades, and I can recall a few that required multiple shots over the years. Cartridge choice has much less to do with killing an animal than people want (need?) to believe. A bullet put in the right place the first time will have a much more favorable result than one put in the wrong spot.

I think if everyone was required to use smaller cartridges and bullets to start with, with the admonishment that placement and bullet choice was the most important factor, then the mindset that many people have of "using a big enough cartridge to offset a bad hit" would be greatly reduced.

Most of my friends have hunting age children. And I can't think of any of them that DON'T have a story of an animal NOT shot at by a child, because in my circle all of my hunting companions are enthusiasts. And consequently they have instructed their kids on shot placement and (usually) to wait for a broadside shot to ensure the best chance of success. I can't think of any of them that this fall didn't have deer get away without a shot fired, due to the kids waiting for a broadside shot, as that's what they had been told to do. And a couple of those had deer in close, quartering in, that were a slam dunk shot for the kid, and the cartridge, but the kid waited "cause dad said to shoot them broadside". Point being, you don't see ego in kids, or kids that take shots that they shouldn't "cause I'm shooting a 338 UltraMag, it'll kill'em even if it misses the right spot"...
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I was hoping you would chime in.
 
I will likley get labeled a troll here. But hey WTH... just cause it's legal, doesn't mean it's right. Just cause you can, doesn't mean you should. Use enough gun no matter what the game. JMO and in my opinion the .223 is to small a caliber for what I consider ethical on deer sized game. Will it kill one, I'm sure it will... but so can a heavy enough rock if you hit one in the head.

And for all you "good ole boys" that have killed em with a .22 rimfires.....we are hunters not poachers....Smarten up and be a responsible sportsperson. Ethics and the critters we all chase deserve better.

And yes I said ethics i have mine you can have your own. If its legal in your province then its your own choice
 
KodiakHntr said:
Cartridge choice has much less to do with killing an animal than people want (need?) to believe. A bullet put in the right place the first time will have a much more favorable result than one put in the wrong spot.

I think if everyone was required to use smaller cartridges and bullets to start with, with the admonishment that placement and bullet choice was the most important factor, then the mindset that many people have of "using a big enough cartridge to offset a bad hit" would be greatly reduced..
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saskcop said:
I have seen bears, deer and elk shot with 5.56. They were all dead on the spot or shortly thereafter. .
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It really doesn't have to get more complicated than that, does it?

Put the bullet in the right place and animals die.

We really shouldn't have to do 200 posts about this simple concept but hey....it's CGN Laugh2
 
heliace said:
Always the same. Big city, weekend warrior hunters condemning the 5.56 and the good ol' country boys who have probably fed their families for years on deer shot with a 22 Cooey, trying to educate them. A 5.56 in the heart/lungs is deadly on deer. End of story. I have ruined too much meat with a 30-06 and prefer the 5.56. Plenty for the job.
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That be true fer sure. Got more deer with my little Cooey 39 that I been using since 1970 than with all four .223's that I've owned over the years.
View attachment 193277
Only reason I got outta .22 centerfire rifles is that it was a pain in de butt to cast boolits smaller than .264" fer me. The latest 223's out there have fast twist barrels to stabilize bullets of decent weight and better construction for the bore size which makes fer a lot of filled freezers.;)
 
Weatherby and other magnum cartridges for me only. Have at it to the chest thumpers who wish to prove their manlyhood. I'll continue to practice the KISS theory.
 
cdn1canhunt said:
I will likley get labeled a troll here. But hey WTH... just cause it's legal, doesn't mean it's right. Just cause you can, doesn't mean you should. Use enough gun no matter what the game. JMO and in my opinion the .223 is to small a caliber for what I consider ethical on deer sized game. Will it kill one, I'm sure it will... but so can a heavy enough rock if you hit one in the head.

And for all you "good ole boys" that have killed em with a .22 rimfires.....we are hunters not poachers....Smarten up and be a responsible sportsperson. Ethics and the critters we all chase deserve better.

And yes I said ethics i have mine you can have your own. If its legal in your province then its your own choice
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+1000.

From a guy that lives on a island with more deer than people, and a big buck is 65lbs on the hooks.

Own a 223. First out for target and plinking. Probably 20th for hunting. How many here advocating this have a 223 as first choice for deer, if you don't then your just trolling.
 
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Don't own a 32-20, not exactly popular anymore.

Just to make a distinction I would use any tool available to survive. But this thread is about hunting. The 223 is far from the best tool in my safe, actually one of the worst. Can it be improved by reloading premium projectile, sure, but reloader don't typically reload for or own only one firearm. Again other guns being reloaded for, would probably be better choices.

So.....why?
 
Its also anemic but even though it has a faster lighter bullet it is compared to a 357 mag which I feel is a max 50 yard deer cartridge.

I shoot a 18" barreled T/C Contender carbine in 10mm it is comparable to the top loads in a 357 mag I would not use it on deer beyond 50 yards but once again I have better choices to take hunting so that is not the roll it is used for.
 
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