The 454 Casull

Freyr_255 said:
The difference is that the Rossi 1892 in a 20" barrel weighs 5.6 lbs. Try finding any rifle that's comparable in a power to weight ratio, short of a rather expensive bolt action mountain gun. If you're hunting, I guess you can go for cartridge specs only. I carried this thing on my pack all day, every day, for a very long time, so the whole package mattered.
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The Ruger 77/44 Bolt...5.5lbs.
 
Ardent said:
I can only see a pistol caliber carbine, even as heavy as .454 / .475, as companion to a revolver and a forced match for ammunition commonality. Love the guns, a little 1892esque lever is a dream to handle and carry, but can’t warm up to the ballistics and on game effect.
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I dunno...all I see when I look at 308 is a cartridge where literally every other 30 cal did it better...but here we are. lol!


Mr. Friendly said:
The Ruger 77/44 Bolt...5.5lbs.
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That's fair. Although bolt gun vs lever gun and 44 mag vs 454 casull. Cartridge alone has a 30% or more power difference depending on loading.
 
Freyr_255 said:
I dunno...all I see when I look at 308 is a cartridge where literally every other 30 cal did it better...but here we are. lol!




That's fair. Although bolt gun vs lever gun and 44 mag vs 454 casull. Cartridge alone has a 30% or more power difference depending on loading.
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The 308 has obvious advantages when it comes to trajectory and effective range though.

I like fast stuff (old school fast, not nosler/RUM fast) so the 270 and 7RM are two of my favourites. Recently got a 9.3x57 to play with, at least you can get decent velocity from a 366cal without having to use bullets with dreadful sectional densities. That's my one big problem with the small case 45cals like 454 casull and 450bm (and others like 375 legend), you have to pick between velocity and sectional density, and the only way to get both is a bigger case and far more recoil.

That said, if I was hunting bears over bait or in a stand with no chance of a shot over 100yds I would totally be willing to use a 454 R92, and a sub-6lb rifle would sure be nice on those long hikes through the coast mountains chasing bear and deer.
 
I disagree = I have never not even once considered carrying a 308 Win as a personal defense firearm whereas I bought Puma M92 in 454 Casull specifically for that roll.
 
Having seen an awful lot of big game shot, including many Grizzlies, I can absolutely guarantee you you’re about five times further ahead with the .308 than the .454. Popular conception on cartridges is frankly dead wrong, and this is something I learned not something I only believe. In fact it went against my beliefs in the beginning, but I’ve seen too much to deny it now. Add a modicum of speed, nothing crazy but standard .308 / .30-06 stuff, and you’re in an entirely different realm of on game effect when the averages are looked at.
 
Weren't the Rossi .454s discontinued because they'd didn't handle the hotter loads well over time?
 
870P said:
Weren't the Rossi .454s discontinued because they'd didn't handle the hotter loads well over time?
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The only reference to such a claim I can find goes back to a post on a gun forum from 2011. The poster was quickly denounced and anyone familiar with the M92 action can attest that it is very, very strong.
 
Ardent said:
Having seen an awful lot of big game shot, including many Grizzlies, I can absolutely guarantee you you’re about five times further ahead with the .308 than the .454. Popular conception on cartridges is frankly dead wrong, and this is something I learned not something I only believe. In fact it went against my beliefs in the beginning, but I’ve seen too much to deny it now. Add a modicum of speed, nothing crazy but standard .308 / .30-06 stuff, and you’re in an entirely different realm of on game effect when the averages are looked at.
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I can see that I went lever action for the fast action and the heavy bullets have to say I felt pretty safe packing them in the bush that is until I put my 21" 375RUM loaded with 350gr TTSX - Wooleighs @ 2450fps together hardly carried the levers after I started packing it around. I'm mostly in the bush in SW BC now so pack the short 14" single shot Contender carbines in 338JDJ #2 and 375JDJ now.
 
B said:
The only reference to such a claim I can find goes back to a post on a gun forum from 2011. The poster was quickly denounced and anyone familiar with the M92 action can attest that it is very, very strong.
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I know the M92 is strong, especially with modern steels, but we're talking a larger cartridge than what the action was design for, at 3x the pressure.
 
I've never had an issue with mine mind you I do not shoot full house 454 Casull revovler loads = I shoot a Ruger Super Redhawk the design of the cylinder metal while super strong does expand slightly under full house loads the shrinks back to spec unfortunately the brass also expands slightly but doesn't contract like the cylinder resulting in cases that are stuck in the case so I work up my loads until they start to have sticky extraction then back off 1/2 gr.
 
Ardent said:
Yet that boring old .308 carbine does every single thing better than a .454 carbine does except share ammunition with a revolver, and I mean everything.
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You clearly missed the point of the humour. I was saying you can nit pick all day on how something is better than something else, but at the end of the day it exists for a reason. So saying something else is better in every way/isn't that great misses the point the same way saying a 300 win mag or 300 rum does everything better than a 308.
 
Freyr_255 said:
You clearly missed the point of the humour. I was saying you can nit pick all day on how something is better than something else, but at the end of the day it exists for a reason. So saying something else is better in every way/isn't that great misses the point the same way saying a 300 win mag or 300 rum does everything better than a 308.
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Didn’t miss it, just see a different angle. :) I love the tiny lever guns as mentioned but can’t find a good reason for one in my work gun cabinet for outfitting or bush flying, when a 4 3/4lb 18” Kimber .308 is lighter and all around more effective. The .300 RUMs also struggle to get to 4 3/4lb, or at least the shooters would struggle if they did. I didn’t find the recoil of my .475 Linebaugh / .480 Ruger No.1S any different than the .308, in fact it almost seemed to recoil more, but did less downrange.
 
Mr. Friendly said:
anyone with experience of recoil between the Casull and a .44RM?
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Sure, both have significant recoil. The Casull is much worse though which shouldn't be any surprise. I can shoot full power .44 until I run out. I rarely do more than 18 rounds of .454 at a time, but I may do that several times a week...
 
my goto guns for the bush are a 1892 rossi in 454 casull and a 1973 french mas in 45 schofield .

i recut a bullet mold to make a really nice almost 500 grain bullet for the 454 at subsonic velocities .

it is entirely possible a blued 20 inch rossi in 454 weighs under 5 pounds , it still feels like a toy and i've used it for close to 15 years now . it will be in my backpack , and i will forget it is there it is so small and light .
 
B said:
The only reference to such a claim I can find goes back to a post on a gun forum from 2011. The poster was quickly denounced and anyone familiar with the M92 action can attest that it is very, very strong.
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15+ years of full power 454 loads in a 1892 rossi , without issue .

before the 454 was released , they were loading 45 colt rifles up to 454 pressure levels .

the biggest thing with the rossie was issues with the 45 colt rifles rattling apart from the recoil ( magazine tube would come apart and the sights would rattle off ) , not with the strength of the action itself .
 
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