The ATC Chronicles

driller212

driller212

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I have finally decided to apply for a wilderness ATC, and thought I would chronicle the process I go through as to help others. The water here is a bit murky as there are no real guidelines that any one CFO follows that I am aware of past the application form. Some require courses etc, and others don't. It will be interesting to see what hoops I am required to jump through. Also, I travel between many provinces so I may have to appease more than one CFO. I work in remote areas and encounter potentially dangerous animals often, so theoretically I should be able to obtain an ATC. I may even poke and prod about one for recreational use even though I know they will reject it.

I have just purchased a "large cal" revolver and holster, and have completed the application form. I also called the CFO office here in Alberta in regards to the application and was told to email it to them, and to await contact.

I will update this first post as things progress...

Aug 23 Update:

I received this bundle of paperwork consisting of a questionnaire and proof of proficiency forms. I called the CFO to find out who exactly can give me the required proficiency training and testing. I was told that "any" range officer can do it. I have emailed my range (Genesee) to see if a range officer there can give me the course. I have 3 months to complete the application, which is not a lot of time when you work 6 week shifts.

Photo bucket would not rotate the photos so apologies.





Aug 24:
It turns out the only guy at Genesee that completed that training has passed on, so I have been forced to email the CFO for Alberta for a list of qualified individuals that complete this type of training. This is already turning into a wild goose chase...

OCT 8 Update:

Finally back home and going to do the course this week as I finally have my holster.

Got some requirements in the mail for Quebec as it is one of the provinces I would need. The requirements are next to impossible to meet so I likely will not be able to carry there. (Example: if plans change while I am in a remote area I somehow have to get a hold of them to change the ATT and also have to get an ATT for every time I move somewhere new which is ridiculous. They even request maps of all areas you will be in. I will try to appease these requirements but at first glance it appears to be made to be impossible to get.

OCT 12 Update:

Did my practical qualification today. Since it was for BC and Yukon I was required to shoot at 5, 7, 15, and 25m in both standing and kneeling position with 3 shots resting and 3 shots unresting for the 15 and 25m portions. There was a 40 second time period allowed for each distance. 80% of the shots had to be within 18" of center. Apparently if you apply for Alberta you also have to qualify in prone as well and only 60% of the shots have to be within 18" of center. I have to say I actually had a blast today doing it. It is really fun to be able to draw and fire from a holster at targets at varying distances in different positions. I think I will get my black badge in the future.

Now that I have all of the requirements I will send off my full application this afternoon.

Standing qualification:


Kneeling qualification:




Here is the application for Quebec showing the parts where a) you have to apply separately for each "trip" for both the ATC and the ATT with specific dates (which is impossible with how work is for me), and b) the processing time is 3 days which in my job where everything is last minute and plans change all the time just makes it impossible.

 
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Very interested in the outcome. I've been considering an application myself for the Ranch & Pasture work I spoke of in the previous thread. The proffessions they currently consider that qualify for the permits needs to be re-assessed. It isn't just Prospectors, Guides and trappers that are faced with the exposure and scenarios our "system" currently sees fit for eligibility on carrying.

Do keep us posted.
 
whiskeywillow said:
Very interested in the outcome. I've been considering an application myself for the Ranch & Pasture work I spoke of in the previous thread. The proffessions they currently consider that qualify for the permits needs to be re-assessed. It isn't just Prospectors, Guides and trappers that are faced with the exposure and scenarios our "system" currently sees fit for eligibility on carrying.

Do keep us posted.
Click to expand...

This, while I do live in the prairies, we do get bear and cougar on our land from time to time. I wonder if an ATC would allow for the use of such a firearm to put down maimed animals as a result of farming activities? I hate having to carry a rifle or shotgun to the field let alone have it ride in the equipment with me everyday and worrying about where it is when I go in for lunch, or go get another piece of equipment. It would be ideal to have a holstered mid size 9mm with some quality hollow points to put down the 2 or 3 porcupines I have to put down or watch bleed out very slowly every year from swather related incidence''s.
 
Here is my journey into the wonderful world of ATC's (authorizations to carry). EVERYTHING BELOW IS ONLY APPLICABLE TO ONTARIO, I CANT CONFIRM HOW THINGS WORK IN DIFFERENT PROVINCES.

Before I turn this into a novel here are some key points:

Authorization is only good for 12 months for first time applicants. 2 year licenses after that. You have to re-qualify with a firearm every 4 years.

I can only carry while trapping and doing nuisance work for the purpose of dispatching.

For trapping, I'm limited to the Zone in which my trapping license is issued for. For nuisance I won't be travelling very far so pretty much my home town and surrounding areas.

No I don't have a registered trap line, I'm in southern Ontario near the GTA. I only trap on private properties where I have permission.

I've been a licensed trapper for 3 years now. No it's not my full time job.

I went though this process because there is a lot of misinformation and bs about ATC's.

This is my contribution to the CCFR educational portfolio.

I won't get into why I got into trapping, reasons are personal and quite frankly I don't need to justify it to the public. I enjoy learning new things.

Trapping courses are generally offered in the fall and spring for obvious reasons.

Trapping seasons generally run from October to March. Nuisance work is year round.

In order to apply for a ATC you need to fall into one of several categories:

Protection of life - good luck with this one, unless you carry money, jewels, are in the gun business, or can prove a viable threat you're not getting one.

Bear baiting - applied for this one as well but was denied as I have no experience as a bear baiter. Hoping to get involved in this down the road. If anyone knows a Master Baiter who's taking on apprentices let me know. Would love to get a hold of them. BTW This is another way to get an ATC without getting a trapping license. But you have to have a ministry approved bait site. ONCE YOU PASS YOUR Wilderness handgun carry course).

Employment related wilderness carry - if you work in deep woods, surveying, geology, polar cap ice studies, etc, etc AND your employer would sponsor you, well you can apply for one of these as well (ONCE YOU PASS YOUR Wilderness handgun carry course).

Wilderness Handgun Carry Course

Cost is about $300. For this you get to enjoy 2 days of classroom education followed by a shooting test!

Classroom education mostly consisted of learning about bears and how awesome revolvers are..

The course is very similar to the firearm safety course. A lot of ACTS.... Which is great.

There is also quite a bit of talk about holsters. Level 1 holster is required. Leather is the favourite, no love for chest holsters for some reason...

Now for the fun stuff, caliber selections.

22 for dispatch no brainer there. For bears minimum 357 for black bears, and minimum 44magnum for polar.

At the end of the book learning you get to take a trip to the range, and do your practical test, if you fail this, no point in doing the written.

This test consists of 18 shots fired at a target.

First 6 shots are timed and have to be placed within a 8 inch circle at 5 feet, you have 18 seconds to do it.

Next 6 shots the target moves back to 10 feet, you can take all the time in the world on this one.

Lastly 20 feet again 6 shots no timer.

You have to get 15 out of the 18 into the black to pass.

You have to do this test on either a semi and a revolver in the largest caliber you intent to use. Once you pass with that caliber you can apply for any caliber below that, in the action (semi/revolver) you qualified with.

I qualified on a Glock 20 in 10mm (equivalent to 357) and Taurus in 357. I wanted versatility, most other guys qualified with revolvers in 44 magnum.

Once the shooting is done you write a 200 question test and have to score 80%.

Assuming you pass that you take another practical test similar to the hands on version of the firearm safety course ACTS, PROVE, holster draw etc.

If you pass this you get a stamped copy of you "diploma" and the paperwork really starts.....

With your wilderness handgun carry course completed you call the CFO and they email you 60+ pages to fill out.

You will need local ministry of natural resources representative to vouch for you, in addition to 3 guarantors (all will be contacted).

Wait a few more weeks and boom! Do one more phone interview, and you're ready to carry :)

Please let me know if I need to clarify anything , or if I missed something. I'm by no means an expert, but going through this process certainly makes me feel like I can be...

Sorry for any auto correct or grammatical errors. Will try to fix them as I see them.
 
Great info here , tagged
Lots of hurdle jumping(with red tape all over them) for sure , you made it sound almost easy there for a sec.

Looking forward to seeing you get that permit.
 
(onetwentyish)
There's been more than one incident (swathing) here at our place as well; where coyotes (& both whitetail/mule deer fawns) have unfortuneately gone through the headers and needed to be put down. I've called on more than one occasion for a gun to be run out to me so I'd have a means of dealing with that. While I agree on the convienience of a holstered pistol for those circumstances too, where location-for and room to keep a long-gun are limited, I did mean more so for use (in my case) on the big blocks of pasture a guy spends great amounts of time horseback (hours away) from the gun cabinet, that no-one can bring you one, nor is there space to carry it either. just like the argument prospectors get their eligiblity to carry*

The general public doesn't realize there are definitely still people doing remote-enough livestock work (farm & ranching) where the locations and lands are in large enough blocks, that bears (including black bears AND Grizzlies in given locations) wolves, and also more & more expanding cougar populations are impacting us-guys tending these pastures equally so that they are impacting the animals in our care on-them. Wolf "kills" on cattle, wounded cattle by wolf preying, missed cycling due to wolf activity & tormenting of the cattle (and lost calf crop percentages tied to that because of that strain on the herd) are all cutting into our bottom lines and impacting OUR profession & livelyhood... those threats to the cattle are there, they are real and WE while out there are exposed to it just the same.

Our own farm lost three cows last summer due to wolves and lost the use of one breeder Bull due to what I'm convinced was a Sow bear he spooked (with cubs probably) that jumped him because of it, she tore his flank with one set of claws and ripped his balls-sack lower on the opposite side of the attack.. it happened from behind him. I found him while riding the next day, wounded and off on his own in a bluff far from the rest of the herd. He lived, but useless afterward... those bulls average $7000 to replace. Think about that. My argument here is; if that sow could jump him by spook, what would stop her from jumping my horse(?) ..and how would any long-arm tied to the saddle help me while I'm trying to get my horses head together while a bear is charging?? In that event, a holstered revolver would be accesible enough to give me a fighting chance to at least get a shot off to stop her before she was on his-hind, or worse, me on the ground and her ripping at me!?

Same regard, Same pasture; if I had my horse tied off and I was walking a stretch of boggy ground fixing fence, carrying pliers, staples and a tightener over my shoulder eliminating a place to carry a long-gun... and what if that sow spooked unexpected and got after (me) instead of the bull.. my hands full, rifle on my horse 400 yards away and no means to do anything?? Person don't stand much chance. 2000lb bull narrowly got away, how would I!!! But, if carry was allowed, or such a permit eligible to THIS profession; I could quickly drop the pliers & staples and have a tool on my holster to save my a$$... in caliber form

Need another; Drought years gone by. Cows out there wandering into the mud to reach the water to drink then get stuck.. how many times I rode up on one up to her ears in loon-$hit, stuck, half alive, but already torn open by coyotes-- again, due to limited space no long-gun was along. But a suffering animal had to be left until riding out, driving home, getting a gun, then making the whole trek all over again to end it... all the while the coyotes returning to literally eat that cow alive. One you nursed along from a calf, raised on a can of oats as a yearling, assisted on her first calf during spring-time, only to have no choice but walk away from because you had no "right" to have the revolver in your gun cabinet along easily on your belt, where there was room, which could have served to dispatch that animal and at least stop further inflicted and not-necessary suffering! The right to carry in THIS profession (in my strong opinion) goes even beyond the business of protection for a guide (for example/who qualify) In MY profession, where wild animals can inflict hurt and suffering on the animals in MY care, the right to carry could be argued an animal welfare case. We should have the right for permits and use of pistols as a tool, just like that pair of fencing pliers we carry around. No damn difference.

I can go on, and on.. and on-- bottom line is: carry permits should absolutely be deemed eligible to people in "this" profession for every reason the current eligible proffessions are eligible... and even more so

I hope the CFO's, politicians, RCMP, Wardens and any other powers that-be who might read this would give this stuff some consideration. Our current carry laws and permitting has to be revisited and ammended. Pete's sake, there are good reasons to allow people to use handguns far beyond just "the range."
 
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Whiskey willow

Dude reading your post was quite humbling
My dear all grandfather did some of that work out there during the depression riding fence lines

"Grand pa you where a cowboy?"
- I guess you could say that
"Wow grand pa ! What was it like ?"

MY @ss got sore !

Lol but seriously thanks for the read
 
Not too many hoops for me to jump through for my wilderness ATC. I carry for the purpose of predator defence on my trapline. Just need to fill out the application, provide proof of payment for both my trapline lease and trapping license and provide the reg # of the handgun I'd like to carry. Kinda crappy I can only be approved to carry one pistol as it would be nice to carry both for protection as well as dispatch. My ATC is good from mid September to the end of June on my registered trapline.
 
will be interesting to see if there is a difference between the Ontario one and the Alberta one.
from the couple people ive met here in Northern Alberta that have the permit i dont recall any of them having to do any tests of any sort.
 
This test consists of 18 shots fired at a target.

First 6 shots are timed and have to be placed within a 8 inch circle at 5 feet, you have 18 seconds to do it.

Next 6 shots the target moves back to 10 feet, you can take all the time in the world on this one.

Lastly 20 feet again 6 shots no timer.

You have to get 15 out of the 18 into the black to pass.
Click to expand...

ive been sitting here thing about this part.
am i the only one that finds this strange?
i understand that they want you to hit what your shooting at but your wanting to carry to protect yourself, who cares if i can put 15 in the black at 20 yards when im getting mauled by a bear?
im pretty sure when i shove the gun into the bears ribs im gonna put 15 in it no problem.

i just find that strange.

like if they really wanted to make sure you could hit your predator they should make it more realistic, lets shoot ya up with a couple amps of epinephrine so your heart rate is 200ish and THAN see if you can hit anything.

and who decided that 15 out of 18 is the magic number.
why not 14?

"im sorry, you got 12 out of 18 you do not qualify to save your life if you get attacked by a bear, you my friend or low hanging fruit and deserve to be eaten"

Canadian Rangers are issued a rifle for predator defense in the wilds, they dont have to qualify with no 15 out of 18.
why such a difference for a pistol?
sounds like Ontario is just trying to make it as painful as they possibly can.
 
Because it takes 15 just to get through the hide. And we all know every 4th missed shot in the wilderness will immediately hit a kitten.
 
Not sure what you are referring to?

Anyways here is todays update:

Aug 24:
It turns out the only guy at Genesee that completed that training has passed on, so I have been forced to email the CFO for Alberta for a list of qualified individuals that complete this type of training. This is already turning into a wild goose chase...
 
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