The dilema of CoreyTheCowboy

[CoryTheCowboy]

Cory, I am having a bit of a brain fart here and forget what it is you are loading, do I remember it is an 8mm - 06? (I know I could look back through many pages and find out, but....) I just acquired a rifle in this new-to-me chambering.............and 3031 is a GREAT powder, I use it in a number of cartridges.

Best regards,

Doug

Good afternoon Doug, it's a 323 CTC (Cory/Ted Collaboration)...which is when a heavy handed wannabe gunsmith is attempting to hand ream a 8x57 to 8mm/06 chamber but overshoots it and of course Ted saves the day by teaching me to salvage the project instead of rebarreling it I was using the 3031 in my .303 Savage, but I got better results with the 190 gr Barnes with Leverevolution, so had a surplus of it to test.

Cory... those 196 Woodleighs @ 2600 are a perfect bear rig... better get after them!

I'll admit I've put exactly...5 unsuccessful minutes into hunting bear in my entire life, but I'm planning to take it a little more seriously this spring and this is the rifle that will be coming with me.

Hey, Cory - 2,600 fps with nearly 200 grain bullets? Wow! - has got you just about back to Nosler 9 loads for, well, the 30-06.... Except they needed a 24" barrel to do that!!! And they did get a bit past that with 3 powders, or so they reported...

I'm into unexplored territory with only the slightest bit of common sense as my guide...so if I stop posting again, assume things have taken a turn for the worst and I pushed it too hard.

I realize I'm late to the party on this, but that - is - beautiful!

It did it's best to fulfill the vision of the "Ugly 8mm"

Years ago, my old shooter buddy Laird Allary, now gone on to the big hunting grounds, convinced me to give him my prize (i.e. very ugly) 8x57 "sporter" to take and have rechambered to 8mm-06. Did so, and continued to use it for whitetail for years after. I only ever used 150 grain Sierra SP and a healthy charge of 47SB, good Ammo Mart surplus.

The above thread is priceless. Good natured razzing, tongue-in-cheek explanations, reference to Possum Lodge - all good stuff!

A while back, I made reference on here to bungling my way through making up 8mm-06 brass, and lo and behold, a good CGN'r sends me a die to speed and simplify the process. Thanks again! I have never chrono'd the round, but will have to try to fit that in my busy schedule. I do know that if I plant a round in the whitetail boiler room, it's a done deal.

Thanks for the postings of a fun project. Keep up the good work!

I'm sure that I could plunk one of those bullets into the boiler room of a deer at any velocity I've achieved so far and it would work well...like Ted said earlier during the 170gr tests, I had basically replicated a 30-30 load, but if I had stopped there, I don't think this thread would've been nearly as exciting

Cory

 

[CoryTheCowboy]

.323 CTC Update

In an attempt to sight the rifle in, I went out shooting because...I'm not sure of another way to do it and this happened

In a conversation with the co-creator, we have come to the conclusion that Cowboy's Nitro Express Garage Gunsmithing skipped the important step of making sure the front ramp properly mated with the band (as you can see where the Loc-Tite Black Max remains). So, I need to fit it properly this time, not skipping important steps and try again. Also, getting impatient and not adding a tapped hole to secure the ramp/band to the barrel was also a poor choice. At this point, the rifle cannot be classified as Cowboy's Best.

Another issue is I've shot peep sights for a long time, but that day (it fell off on the 5th shot or so), I was having a hard time seeing the target at 50 yards. It was overcast, dark and snowy...but those are close to the conditions I usually choose to hunt in I somehow ended up purchasing a Leupold M8 3x today and have a Weaver V4.5 on the way. Which isn't ideal, as I want this to be a receiver sighted rifle, but we'll see. Even if it's only for load development, the scope will give me better accuracy than my Mr. Magoo eyes are allowing.

Final issue is I don't like the Hogue stock. I know that a lot of people like the "grippiness" of the stock, but I find it akin to holding a handful of chewed bubble gum. Anyone have any opinions on another decent synthetic stock option? The uglier the better.

Cory
Co-Creator of 2020's (Self-Proclaimed) Most Popular 8mm Wildcat

 

[mikeyb]

Might want to go EE-diving for a Ram-Line stock, those Hogues are tackier than an unlubed condom.

 

[CoryTheCowboy]

Might want to go EE-diving for a Ram-Line stock, those Hogues are tackier than an unlubed condom.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't like them. I'll keep an eye in the EE for a Ram-Line or similar.

I don't mind paying a little bit for a decent synthetic stock, but a McMillian price range stock is out of reach for a Ugly Gun.

Cory

 

[Slimbo]

Grab a blank from wildcat and finish it yourself.

 

[kamlooky]

Maybe yer sqweeez'in yer eyes shut jest whilst yer pewtt'in psi awn thet ther powder igneyetor lever.
Wid chit fawl'in awf, kuld be yer gitt'in sqwint eye?

Lewyp looks awl gooder awn tawp thet kustum ker-pow.

 

[Eagleye]

This has been an interesting thread, Cory [et al] As a big fan of 8mm rifles [own 8x57, 325wsm, 8mm Rem Mag]
I have owned a number of them over the years including 2 - 8mm/06 rifles.

In the standard 8x57, I like Hodgdon's 100-V, or Vihtavuori N550 These will drive 180 grain bullets to 2800
and 196/200's to 2650 safely in my Husky 1600. [23" barrel]

For the 8mm-06 add roughly 100 fps to those numbers.
The 325 will drive 196/200's to 2900+ with Norma MRP or Reloder 23.
Of course, the 8mm Mag is a brute, driving the 200 A-Frame to 3200+ [Reloder 26 is the bee's knees]

I have shot a fair amount of game [mostly Moose & Elk] with 8mm rifles, and they work exactly as you
would expect. A dead animal within a very short time after the shot. Dave.

 

[CoryTheCowboy]

This has been an interesting thread, Cory [et al] As a big fan of 8mm rifles [own 8x57, 325wsm, 8mm Rem Mag]
I have owned a number of them over the years including 2 - 8mm/06 rifles.

In the standard 8x57, I like Hodgdon's 100-V, or Vihtavuori N550 These will drive 180 grain bullets to 2800
and 196/200's to 2650 safely in my Husky 1600. [23" barrel]

For the 8mm-06 add roughly 100 fps to those numbers.
The 325 will drive 196/200's to 2900+ with Norma MRP or Reloder 23.
Of course, the 8mm Mag is a brute, driving the 200 A-Frame to 3200+ [Reloder 26 is the bee's knees]

I have shot a fair amount of game [mostly Moose & Elk] with 8mm rifles, and they work exactly as you
would expect. A dead animal within a very short time after the shot. Dave.

I expect that I could push the Woodleighs a fair bit faster, but since the box recommends staying under 2700 FPS impact velocity and my last deer nearly had powder burns on it, I figured I'd play it safe and stay at just over 2600FPS. I would like to eventually push them as fast as I can get them to go, just to see where it tops out, but my supply is quickly dwindling down and they seem to be pretty scarce last time I looked.

I feel confident in saying that I have more confidence in this cartridge than I do in my hunting skills

Cory

 

[Slimbo]

Phil shoemaker took a wood rasp/hand plane and shaved all the rubber down on his hogue stock. There’s about 1/4” of rubber on it then it’s a normal plastic stock underneath. You can reshape it the way you like and leave just enough rubber residue to keep it slight grippy like ugly checkering.

 

[IronCanadian]

.323 CTC Update

Cory
Co-Creator of 2020's (Self-Proclaimed) Most Popular 8mm Wildcat

Sweet jebbus, I didn't think it could get purdy'r, I was wrong!

After you've properly affixed that front site ramp I would keep the electrical tape on there, it adds just that little bit more pinache and has the added benefit (not that it needs more) of cutting down on glare.

 

[jamesharrison]

Cory:

Should you want, tell me the weight of a fired, but not re-sized, case with the fired primer still in place, then fill the same case up with water to the meniscus & tell me that weight. I'll also need length of brass case, exact length & weight of bullet you're using, if other than the Woodleigh RN's you've spoken about, powders you'd like worked up, what pressure you'd like to stay below (remember, CIP spec's 56,565 psi for the 8x57IS cartridge) & I'll do some QL calculations for you.

I might even be persuaded to send you some 255 gr. & 200 grain bullets from my moulds, which will likely fit in with your UHT (Ugly Husqvarna Thirty Two) (aka .323 CTC).

 

[jamesharrison]

Don't forget that you want to keep some of that black electrical tape over the muzzle to avoid snow, spruce needles, fir sap & other assorted detritus from making its way into the bore, thereby setting the stage for a barrel tulip.

 

[CoryTheCowboy]

Phil shoemaker took a wood rasp/hand plane and shaved all the rubber down on his hogue stock. There’s about 1/4” of rubber on it then it’s a normal plastic stock underneath. You can reshape it the way you like and leave just enough rubber residue to keep it slight grippy like ugly checkering.

That's interesting, I might give that a whirl. Thanks for the tip.

Sweet jebbus, I didn't think it could get purdy'r, I was wrong!

After you've properly affixed that front site ramp I would keep the electrical tape on there, it adds just that little bit more pinache and has the added benefit (not that it needs more) of cutting down on glare.

I read on the internet that if I use red electrical tape, I'll gain 50 FPS, but if I use blue electrical tape my groups shrink down 1/2" at 100 yards. Here I am, a fool using black which has 0 gains of any kind

Cory:

Should you want, tell me the weight of a fired, but not re-sized, case with the fired primer still in place, then fill the same case up with water to the meniscus & tell me that weight. I'll also need length of brass case, exact length & weight of bullet you're using, if other than the Woodleigh RN's you've spoken about, powders you'd like worked up, what pressure you'd like to stay below (remember, CIP spec's 56,565 psi for the 8x57IS cartridge) & I'll do some QL calculations for you.

I might even be persuaded to send you some 255 gr. & 200 grain bullets from my moulds, which will likely fit in with your UHT (Ugly Husqvarna Thirty Two) (aka .323 CTC).

I'll send you a PM when I have a few minutes to go to the reloading room and take some measurements, I appreciate the offer.

Don't forget that you want to keep some of that black electrical tape over the muzzle to avoid snow, spruce needles, fir sap & other assorted detritus from making its way into the bore, thereby setting the stage for a barrel tulip.

I am a firm believer in having my muzzle taped anytime I go anywhere besides the gravel pit

Thanks for the input everyone, this is a fun thread

Cory

 

[CoryTheCowboy]

This morning a care package arrived from Whitehorse containing a Weaver V4.5 and a set of low Weaver rings. My work situation changed and I knew I was going to have a lot less time to fiddle around with this rifle, so I chose a 4.3 Lee Dipper of 3031 behind a Hornady 170 RN, loaded up 25 rounds (feeling nostalgic and remembering the ol' Federal 25 round boxes with the extra 5 for sighting in) and decided that unless my groups looked like a pattern from my Citori, this was going to be my load this Spring.

I had forgotten how much I liked the post and crosshair reticle on those old scopes so I swapped out the M8 and headed to the gravel pit.

I gave it a quick boresight and progressively made my way out to 102 yards...no reason, that just happened to be where my truck stopped.

Excuse the single line group (no excuse, I'm just not that good of a shot). The 2nd group was the ones X'd out (and I knew I pulled the high and right shot) and then my final group was all in the green (and I called the low and left one because of...uhhh..too much coffee)
If I was a better shot, I think those would shrink down a fair bit. Actually, if I could shoot a group without pulling a shot they would be a lot better. The two close ones in both groups were the first two shots, I just crumble under the pressure of the 3rd shot I guess

I forgot my Chrony, but if I give an estimation from my previous loadings, I should be about 2840 FPS or so.

Cory

 

[Doug]

Very Dead Bear..........

 

[jamesharrison]

Cory:

Are the shots landing progressively higher & righter (that's a word, right?) each time you shoot? If so, I'd take a peek at the left side bottom bedding, causing your shots to move higher & righter (see, there it is again!) as the barrel warms.

4.3cc equates to 56.4 gr. of IMR3031. I estimated 0 C for temperature in your parts this a.m. Depending on what your COAL is, your load generated anywhere from 2,962 fps @ 63,241psi (3.000" with 0.341" seating depth) down to 2,846 fps @ 53,074psi (3.300" with 0.041" seating depth).

 

[atisnow]

That Dad of yours is a smart guy, even if he is a bit old and stubborn

 

[atisnow]

I brought it over to my parent's yesterday and my Dad was of course disgusted the minute he saw the synthetic stock. I think he thought I was joking. Then he looks at the stamping and says,
"8x57? Why?"
I had to steal a line from Mr. Wagner and said,
"Why not? But actually, I'm going to rechamber it to 8mm/06. I wanted a winter project"
He thinks about that for a second, and being a devout .35 Whelen fan, goes,
"Ahh, okay. So that's just a necked up 30/06 to 8mm?"
I nodded and said,
"Yeah, .323"
He smirks and says,
"Oh, so it's like a Baby Whelen"

Stubborn old fart...

Cory

That Dad of yours is a smart guy, even if he is a bit old and stubborn

 

[CoryTheCowboy]

Very Dead Bear..........

I have full confidence that if I find a bear, the rifle isn't going to be the weak link...the nut behind the trigger will be

Cory:

Are the shots landing progressively higher & righter (that's a word, right?) each time you shoot? If so, I'd take a peek at the left side bottom bedding, causing your shots to move higher & righter (see, there it is again!) as the barrel warms.

4.3cc equates to 56.4 gr. of IMR3031. I estimated 0 C for temperature in your parts this a.m. Depending on what your COAL is, your load generated anywhere from 2,962 fps @ 63,241psi (3.000" with 0.341" seating depth) down to 2,846 fps @ 53,074psi (3.300" with 0.041" seating depth).

I'm not sure in which order the bullets landed, I was shooting as fast as I accurately could. I wouldn't be surprised if I have a bedding issue though, I'll check after the Spring season.

I weighed 5 scoops of 3031 and I did average 56.4. My COAL was 3.112"

That Dad of yours is a smart guy, even if he is a bit old and stubborn

Ladies and gentlemen, this is my Dad. The man who when I was 18 told me to buy a good 30/06 rifle and I'd be set for life. I proceeded to buy a Sako L61R in 30/06 from Ted and...well, it got crazy from there. If I had listened to him, we wouldn't have this thread...but I'd have a lot more money.

Cory

 

[jamesharrison]

The yogis are out on this side of the border.