The future of Service Rifle

How often do you shoot Service Rifle matches

  • Never have

    Votes: 174 58.0%

  • It has been years

    Votes: 34 11.3%

  • Once a year

    Votes: 19 6.3%

  • Twice a year

    Votes: 17 5.7%

  • More than 2 a year

    Votes: 56 18.7%
  • Total voters
    300
Serving personnel have two options for participation in DCRA/PRA shooting: as a CF member, shooting with the support of the unit, or, entering in the "open" class. The first requires that the unit supply all equipment. The amount of support is unpredictable, and could vary from year to year, budgets and priorities being subject to change. Open class requires that the shooter supply all necessary kit. The cost is not insignificant.
 
I don't own a carbine at the moment and I don't even want to bother trying to get my unit to supply everything for me. Who knows, it could be not all that complicated but I highly doubt it. Expect to see me in the future though ;)
 
My unit hasn't supported a team in several years, however, I have a carbine now and I do plan on attending shoots in the near future. (As in, when my budget allows me to purchase an optic and ammunition.)
 
I will be starting into service rifle in the new year. A spring clinic would be a great idea for new shooters as well as get everybody already involved fresh again.
 
Unit support for this type of activity is few and far between. Most units are hurting for personnel and are reluctant to give troops time to pursue shooting sports, but yet they allow troops time to play hockey and other sports. never understood how golf increases military skill? Also many units budgets are tight and to get ammo for a shooting team. Unless the COC has a keen intrest in shooting. you can pretty much forget about it. I have been pretty lucky with my COC they support my shooting and me passing on the knowledge I have learned from the shooting competitions I have attended in the past.

Civvie side I have my own rifle for SR but ammo is another story. It is expensive and time consuming for a father of 2 very active kids. The future of SR lies with us the shooters. For soldiers it will take the COC recognizing that marksmanship is a core skill that needs to be in every soldiers skillset and that shooting sports are not a score jammy go but that they are alot of work and long days on the range. For civvies, ya go ahead and run all the clinics you want but if guys and gals can't afford a rifle and ammo it will be the same 9 people out everytime.

5 years from now SR? Who knows? operational tempo and budgets will dictate for military, for civvies their personal budgets will dictate.
 
So cost is always going to be an issue. Would it make sense look at starting intro matches/ clinics from 5-200m so those with SBRs, iron sights and 1X optics are not at a huge disadvantage. I know there are lots of black rifles in Canada and looking on CGN most are set up for CQB. It should be easier to get people out when they already have the gear or can pick up a $700 norinco, a couple of mags and have a chance at taking a match. People can buy gear and upgrade over the years but that first big buy in is always going to be the hardest.

(inside 200m 55gr is good enough and would also help keep costs down)

I think we should keep the 100-500m service rifle matches as well but they must be intimidating for the uninitiated.
 
I learnt shooting(properly) in the military(way back when I needed a summer job), and I listened to the lecture. Irregarless the real skill/knowledge of the instructors ,everyone could regurgiate the lecture material and the marksmanship principles. No matter who said it(even if it is dictated by a robot), they are true. It is up to individual's determination to learn.

Problem with the new SR shooters are - they show up with weapons but their shooting skills are inconsistent. Just becaue they shoot alot at the gunclub, it does not mean they practise proper marksmanship principles or even know the basic skill. It is ok to shoot 100m at the local lane on a bench- but once you head beyond 100, every mistakes is amplified.

In my opinion, the basic SR clinic should go all the way back to the basic - not just zeroing and running people through the stage. It should be almost like a the summer swimming/tennis/hockey camp we did when we were kids. It should be sequential and progressive in difficulty. We don't have enough people to play the league games, but we insist of running the national program as if we have a full team for each city.....
 
Looking at the photos of carbines that get posted here, I suspect that the investment in CQB optimized rigs is pretty much the same as what would be needed for a rifle that would be competitive from point blank way on back to 5 or 600. Maybe more. Bells, whistles and bobble-headed dolls cost money; you don't tend to see these accessories on rifles being used in SR competiton. Few shooters seem to be running box stock M4geries.
From all reports, the M4geries shoot pretty well. If a rifle can hold 3 minutes, it will work back to 500. Install a low powered hunting scope and it will be usable. I do my own gunsmithing, which is a real advantage from the cost standpoint. My competition rifle didn't cost as much as a Norinco, but is capable of winning matches at all ranges if the shooter does his part.
I suspect that a reason that CQB is enjoying a surge in popularity is because it is fun, and the requirement for real marksmanship is modest. Large target, close range, little need for precision to have fun.
Time is a major factor in participation. It takes a real commitment to be available on the dates scheduled for a season's matches. Ammunition, travel, accomodation costs are real. Folks have many obligations, financial and family.
Going to any competition cold is very intimidating. Training and practice opportunities are essential if new shooters are to be recruited. Skills need to be taught, and practiced. I have benefitted from first class coaching and excellent training opportunities.
If an activity isn't rewarding, folks aren't going to do it.
 
greentips said:
.....In my opinion, the basic SR clinic should go all the way back to the basic - not just zeroing and running people through the stage. It should be almost like a the summer swimming/tennis/hockey camp we did when we were kids. It should be sequential and progressive in difficult. We don't have enough people to play the league games, but we insist of running the national program as if we have a full team for each city.....
Click to expand...

That is the exact approach taken in the clinics offered where I shoot.
It isn't enough to just walk shooters through a course of fire, teach them how many rounds are needed, what position is next.
Learn the fundamentals of marksmanship first, learn to effectively apply them, and then start learning how to use them to meet the challenges of competition.
 
Before there was SR and TR and F-Class etc there was just army guys shooting. The PRAs and the DCRA were not started as civilians with a mandate of helping the military, it was military shooters that formed an association modeled off the British NRA. Much of our shooting heritage is stolen from the Brits and if you want to see the future of service rifle controlled by civilians just look at them. Dismal, especially if you are a civilian who likes SR shooting.

If you ever get a chance to visit a place like the MacDonald-Stewart pavilion in Bisley it is packed with history. The pictures of shooting teams around the building tell a story the DCRA would probably not advertise. From the first Canadian team to compete at Wimbleton (the picture is there in the dining room) to about the 60's the teams are all in uniform, listed by name and rank, and staff use terms like team Captain, Commandant, and Adjutant which BTW are military titles. Why? Because they are all serving military of course. The military built the pavilion, not sport shooters.

Only in the 60s and 70s did things go off the rails with Sport shooting and some of those shooters are still shooting TR etc today. There is nothing wrong with approaching marksmanship recreations from a sporting aspect but lets separate what the military needs from things like CFSAC and doing sports with guns for fun. Training SR is fun and that's why I do it every chance I get but if it does not serve a training purpose then its just sports.

As a professional organization only the CF can define what it needs from its training. Civilians can advise, copy, assist etc but if the personalities involved think its their job to decide what is and isn't good training for soldiers then they are undermining the CF's aims. The only way the DCRA and PRAs will survive with a healthy relationship with the CF is if there is an active role by serving soldiers in the executive ranks. Look to the Army Rifle Association (ARA) in the UK which has replaced the NRA in running the military competitions and every serving soldier is a member of. Serving Brit SR shooters have little time for the NRA and their matches. It is unfortunate that the ARA is now undergoing ass-pain as they hand over control from shooters to the Army Small Arms corp who are (ironically) not necessarily shooters. Sound familiar? CFSAC is run by a staff HQ that has nothing to do with marksmanship and contains no shooters.

Civilians and soldiers that want to be involved in SR shooting will come to the organization that is well organized, runs good matches, treats them well, gives good value for the money they pay etc. The military is not going to spend time or your tax dollars to make that happen, it needs to be led by the "end users" the shooters being involved in the organization. The DCRA and PRA could easily be those organizations, the BCRA and ORA is leading the way from what I see as a good model so far. The BCRA has a serving soldier (and CGN dude;)) as the SR president and reservists in particular are perfect in that role. Too bad the CF wouldn't pay reservists to run SR matches in their PRA roles.

Personally I can not wait to see what happens out in BC when the Blair shoot gets going again. The Brigade Commander supports it big time and they have the right guys out there to make it happen.
 
As mentioned before, there could be some sort of intimidation factor for non-SR shooters. I think the idea of putting on some events meant to introduce new shooters to SR matches is a great idea. Some more publicity would help too. Maybe people could take a bunch of pictures when they go to matches and share them with other forum viewers.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by greentips
.....In my opinion, the basic SR clinic should go all the way back to the basic - not just zeroing and running people through the stage. It should be almost like a the summer swimming/tennis/hockey camp we did when we were kids. It should be sequential and progressive in difficult. We don't have enough people to play the league games, but we insist of running the national program as if we have a full team for each city.....

That is the exact approach taken in the clinics offered where I shoot.
It isn't enough to just walk shooters through a course of fire, teach them how many rounds are needed, what position is next.
Learn the fundamentals of marksmanship first, learn to effectively apply them, and then start learning how to use them to meet the challenges of competition
Click to expand...

This is what I would like to see, being new to the game myself.
 
tiriaq said:
That is the exact approach taken in the clinics offered where I shoot.
It isn't enough to just walk shooters through a course of fire, teach them how many rounds are needed, what position is next.
Learn the fundamentals of marksmanship first, learn to effectively apply them, and then start learning how to use them to meet the challenges of competition.
Click to expand...

That's right! Take a look around the next time you're at the range....I've very rarely seen anyone shoot any position except off the bench, and mostly at 100m.

Even "sniper" type matches I've seen/participated in are shot with front rests/bipods. If we/they were ever made to shoot only with sling support,(and in other positions other than bench or prone) we'd be in trouble..........
 
I am a new shooter, under a year, and have been very much enjoying pistol shooting at my indoor range. I have been active in trying to take all the training course and certifications that I can (IDPA club holster certified). I will be purchasing an appropriate rifle/equipment in the spring and would love to get out into the sunshine, rain etc!

The course of fire as I understand it, is pretty intimidating for a beginner, at least to me, as is the running (turning 40 soon, reminder, get to the gym!!) so if there were a "back to basics" skills based structure on top of competition dates, that would be excellent!

We, as Canadians, do not have the opportunities to get out and practice as much as our American friends, what with ATT's, limited numbers of ranges, no ability to shoot restricted rifles on private property, or uncertified ranges. So we probably need to have more structured training opportunities. That and we have no access to cheap surplus 5.56, so every round counts! You can learn just by trying,(slowly) but at a high cost in ammunition. Good instruction maximizes the value of the time and the ammunition we have available.

I would be very interested in a training regimen and instruction and frankly, willing to pay for it!

From a larger point of view, the more that can be done to encourage participation and attract new people, and new gun owners to the sport, the more chance we will all have of holding onto what we love.
 
zupermann said:
That's right! Take a look around the next time you're at the range....I've very rarely seen anyone shoot any position except off the bench, and mostly at 100m.

Even "sniper" type matches I've seen/participated in are shot with front rests/bipods. If we/they were ever made to shoot only with sling support,(and in other positions other than bench or prone) we'd be in trouble..........
Click to expand...

I hate people calling their matches "sniper" matches. It cheapens the professionalism, as well as dedication behind that title.
 
Something else to consider - nothing happens unless someone makes it happen. It takes time and effort to organize and run clinics/matches/competitions. There are also expenses.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom