The future of the Battle Rifle forum

[Johnny Boom]

What's a g3 Wikipedia makes me want one ?

The Heckler & Koch G3 is a select fire 7.62 battle rifle of similar vintage to the M14 and FN FAL. The civilian version is the H&K 91. Back in the day you could purchase G3s that had been converted to semi-auto, along with 20 round magazines. Good rifle, although I think I liked the FN a bit better.

Sadly, all the converted select fire and full autos are now prohibited, along with standard capacity magazines. The "rationale" behind it was that someone would convert them back to full auto and go on some lurid, Hollywood style crime and/or killing spree. If you've ever shot an old full auto 7.62 battle rifle you will laugh at that one.

What I really like about the semi-auto M14 clones by Norinco et al is that there a lot of them out there. When the prohibitionists are back on the Firearms Advisory Committee (funny how that will be considered "balanced") this will politicize more gun owners as voters and citizens because now they have a personal interest.

The biggest threat to battle rifles on this forum is not the flavour of the month, but a few lines of legislation or even worse, regulation by executive order.

 

[H2O MAN]

Actually, the M1A receiver is investment cast in Canada, Montreal IIRC.

Yep, that's the current story.
If Springfield ever becomes a manufacturer instead of an assembler, you Canadians might be able to continue investment cast production for your selves.

 

[Hitzy]

I am not sure I have seen many posts where the receiver was blamed... So, does the 50% price hike mean that QC issues will now include out of spec receivers as well??

who knows? There is so much variation from batch to batch and even rifle to rifle in the same batch....
My point being at $400 most folks suck it up, fix the issues and carry on. At $600-$700 for the same quality we are seeing now, they will not nearly be as tolerable.

 

[rhino62]

The improved type 97 will also be available fall 2013...

At a 50% increase, the rifle would sell for 700-800 right? If it comes with a whack of improvements, stainless barrel, scope mount, railed upper hand guard system...
...then maybe I'd buy one. The Springfield sells for $1700-$2200, but that's crazy talk.

Delusional, wake up your dreaming!

 

[dirtytwo]

The Norinco M-14 actually kept the M1A prices in check, just like the Nork CQ-a and the NEA-15 helped keep stratospheric climbing US made AR prices in reality for us for a few years now.

Sorry, I don't buy that for a second! M1A prices are determined in America for the US market, period. Dealers here have to import them while at the same time incurring currency exchange, shipping and import/export fees from both sides of the border to do so. Economies of scale aren't possible as there just isn't as big a market for M1As here in Canada as there is for, say, Browning or Remington hunting guns. Dealers here by and large aren't gouging us on M1A prices, they cost what they cost. Additionally, there's no way that Springfield/LRB/SEI can compete with Norinco when the latter's price was largely based on trying to move large quantities of rifles dumped on the Canadian market (and New Zealand and Australian markets) when Clinton banned them Stateside. That said, there are always those who are willing to purchase US-made rifles over Chinese, even at the greater prices. On the AR side, NEA and Norc may provide low cost alternatives here in Canada, but, again, they don't beat down PWS, Noveske, Colt, Daniel Defense or Knight's Armament prices one iota.

 

[BCshooterFMJ]

I beleive they still have receivers left in stock pile, its just getting to the bottom of the barrel, hence the price increase(Which will be a MAX of %50) From what I have heard, they will be going for 600 dollars, that price does not make sense if they are having to forge new receivers.

I also agree with the post above mine, the guns mentioned sell like crazy in the states, where they are not allowed, or its difficult and not cost effective to, get their hands on chinese made guns. I am worried about prices going up for other reasons, nothing Norinco related though. If you are worried OUR dealers will suddenly jack prices, well, they will be boosting IRUNGUNS' profit by a hefty sum then.

All I can say about the Norc M30514ssocom18 or whatever the #### its called, is: I wish I had bought 3 instead of two

 

[BCshooterFMJ]

$450 x 1.5 equals $675. Not exactly $800, is it?

Lever's guns sold just fine at $700 15-20 years ago. If the new guns come in at $675 +/-, they'll do just fine, despite not meeting your requirement for personal purchase.

Well, since the new SOCOM model was 500, thats actually 750. 500 x 1.5 = 750

 

[RememberTheSomme]

Sorry, I don't buy that for a second! M1A prices are determined in America for the US market, period. Dealers here have to import them while at the same time incurring currency exchange, shipping and import/export fees from both sides of the border to do so. Economies of scale aren't possible as there just isn't as big a market for M1As here in Canada as there is for, say, Browning or Remington hunting guns. Dealers here by and large aren't gouging us on M1A prices, they cost what they cost. Additionally, there's no way that Springfield/LRB/SEI can compete with Norinco when the latter's price was largely based on trying to move large quantities of rifles dumped on the Canadian market (and New Zealand and Australian markets) when Clinton banned them Stateside. That said, there are always those who are willing to purchase US-made rifles over Chinese, even at the greater prices. On the AR side, NEA and Norc may provide low cost alternatives here in Canada, but, again, they don't beat down PWS, Noveske, Colt, Daniel Defense or Knight's Armament prices one iota.

No NorcM14's will mean higher US made prices. Simply their demand will increase, and so will their prices. We all know what we add to Norinco's to build a solid shooter, totaling about 1/2 to 1/3 the price of the M1A. So if I want to shoot an M-14, I'd have to save two years for an M1A instead of getting the Nork overnight and adding to it over a year.

The Nork and NEA do not affect the pricing of Rifles you have stated above absolutely true. No comparison now is there, these two extremes on the scale are actually rarely compared.

There were many tier two and three guns however that were riding along on the coat tails of the Tier0/1 rifles as the latter's prices climbed sharply. Were these guns as cheap or more cheaply built than a Nork for 2-2.5 times the price? Not on your life. The Nork/NEA just gave us a big break I feel on their cost to us.

 

[BCshooterFMJ]

No NorcM14's will mean higher US made prices. Simply their demand will increase, and so will their prices. We all know what we add to Norinco's to build a solid shooter, totaling about 1/2 to 1/3 the price of the M1A. So if I want to shoot an M-14, I'd have to save two years for an M1A instead of getting the Nork overnight and adding to it over a year.

The Nork and NEA do not affect the pricing of Rifles you have stated above absolutely true. No comparison now is there, these two extremes on the scale are actually rarely compared.

There were many tier two and three guns however that were riding along on the coat tails of the Tier0/1 rifles as the latter's prices climbed sharply. Were these guns as cheap or more cheaply built than a Nork for 2-2.5 times the price? Not on your life. The Nork/NEA just gave us a big break I feel on their cost to us.

Wait, if you can buy a Norc over night, how does it take you 2 years to get a Springfield? 450-500 dollars is pocket change, but 1700 is suddenly a #### load of cash ? If a Norc can be afforded in one pay check, the sprinfield shouldnt take you more then 2 months really.

Americans cannot buy Chinese produced firearms (They can, but after all said and done, they may as well just pay for a Sprinfield) As I stated above, the price of Norincos do not affect the price in the USA, and I will be 100% honest, I do not think that suddenly , since people can no longer buy the 450 dollar rifle, they will say "#### it, guess I need to get the 2000 dollar one" As I beleive: You either want an M1A or you dont, I bet 95 to 98% of the people out there are like me and everyone else that I personally know that owns the Norc, we got em cuz they are cheap, we wouldnt own an M14 style platform if it wasnt for that. So if you think its going to affect the Canadian market for them, because dealers will suddenly start to gouge us , then just buy the M1A from IRUNGUNS.

And I am sorry, if you think supply/demmand will raise the price because suddenly people are going to start buying springfields, at the same time, a lot less people will be buying the barrels and other USGI parts for Norcs, so will all those prices suddenly drop on them since the demmand for them north of the border drops? I highly doubt it.

All in all, its an interesting thing to think about , I am not bashing your opinion or saying you are wrong, just seeing it from a differen opinion and I could very well be 100% wrong. Time will tell.

On a lighter side, since owning this platform, I have decided I will indeed eventually buy a Springfield. I never would have even thought of it if I didnt know what a fantastic all around platform it is.

 

[dirtytwo]

Again, I don't believe that there's any correlation between Norc M14 and M1A prices, not now, not in the past and not in the future. Dealers here are not artificially keeping M1A prices lower because of the M305s. The two rifles are bought by two distinct groups of buyers (although many M1A owners may have a Norinco backup, most Norinco owners don't want to, or can't, fork over the 4-figures for a Springfield/LRB/SEI.)

Canada is just way too small of a market for the M14 platform in general to have that effect on M1A prices. Now, if the US would open the door tomorrow to Norincos, then, yes, I think that M1As might come down a bit (but probably not by much, gun owners are big into buying "Made in USA" gear).

 

[RememberTheSomme]

Good points guys. I never gave it a thought of the Nork being allowed back into the US and that bringing M1A prices down here. Hmmmm....

 

[Rocket Surgery]

I think it's a mistranslation, we tell the Chinese that we want better receiver, they're thinking: "Ah, Now we can receiver more money"

see how funny I am

 

[Matty308]

More then one source has said they will continue bringing them in after the old ones dry up, but there will be a 50% increase in price. My guess is the price increase won't translate to higher quality, just cover the cost for making new parts. Who knows, they could just be making this up so that they can increase profits.

 

[5440fight]

More then one source has said they will continue bringing them in after the old ones dry up, but there will be a 50% increase in price. My guess is the price increase won't translate to higher quality, just cover the cost for making new parts. Who knows, they could just be making this up so that they can increase profits.

Thank you for re-hashing page one of this thread. lol.

 

[raemsbrian]

I would dearly love to see the resurgence of the FN C1A1/L1A1....they were great rifles and there is no reason to prohibiting them. Hell, even California allows them!

 

[45ACPKING]

Home grown, Canadian manufactured M14 receivers & parts would be nice.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that this will never happen. I doubt there's any players in the canadian market with the balls or bank accounts to pull that off.
Would love to be proven wrong though.