The future of the C7?

Claven2 said:
Why??? The Canadian rail is better. more mounting positions (14 vs. 13) and you have a front sight block commonality between all models, unlike the M16 series which requires the supply system to maintain two heights (standard and F height).
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IIRC milspec is F height and M1913 Picatinny rail and not weaver. The supply system does not maintain two FSB heights as they only use one. Unlike the CF where they dont maintain a a standard as some have weaver spec top rail and some have picatinny.

Also why is weaver better when majority of the mounts out there are made for picatinny? Wheres the logic?
 
enefgee said:
Sig rifles had very real problems in Iraq with spring guide rods failing and causing the weapon to fail in FA fire. It was a major subject of discussion for all the guys working there, the response to the issue wasn't lightning fast either.
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Who was using them there ? private contractors ? im tryin to understand what the ''guide rod '' is? the recoil spring is around the piston itself and the piston rides in a tube ? were these rifles the Swiss made guns or the US made ####ty clones?
 
Sinasta said:
IIRC milspec is F height and M1913 Picatinny rail and not weaver. The supply system does not maintain two FSB heights as they only use one. Unlike the CF where they dont maintain a a standard as some have weaver spec top rail and some have picatinny.

Also why is weaver better when majority of the mounts out there are made for picatinny? Wheres the logic?
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You are not correct.

1) "milspec" in Canada is not the same as "milspec" in the US. In Canada, the C7 TDP at Colt Canada specifies a TALLER rail to use the standard A6 front sight block. It is Canadian mil spec. Not all NATO countries adopted the US Mil Std 1913 rail. The Netherlands, Norway, and Denmark, for example, use the Canadian standard rail.

2) The US supply system maintains the A2 FSB for the M16A2 rifle which is still officially issued and the A2F block for flat-top rifles and carbines. So yes, they maintain two different FSB height parts.

3) I am not aware of ANY C7 or C8 rifles in the CF with M1913 rails. Colt Canada will make and sell C7 or C8 rifles to other LE agencies or governments upon request, but the CF doesn't buy or issue them.

4) The CF rail accepts all M1913 accessories, but offers more options and easier logistics. I fail to see this as a negative???
 
brnoshooter said:
That's right, I haven't carried a SIG. But you know, being in the army and humping a C-6 around, that doesn't count either.
Really? Before people open that hole in their neck, maybe consider that the person might have some clue about what they're talking about.

EPIC MOUTHPIECE!!!
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You're comparing a C6 to a .223 infantry rifle? Whatever dude. :rolleyes:
 
Bcviking said:
guide rods ? do you mean op rod ? The carbine versions with a shorter gas system and no bipod weigh not much more than a AR type rifle .. I find it hard to believe the Swiss would adopt a gun that breaks under full auto fire ? The SIG family of rifles are regarded by experts world wide as the most accurate and durable assault rifle out there ..
i would be willing to bet a SIG 550 would beat a M16/ C7 an any torture test given ... I admit the gun is a bit over built but if i had to pick one gun the 550 or C7 it would be a SIG because the service life is way longer .. I hate AR uppers for the fact the T handle locking notch wears out then you have the handle hitting you nose while firing , i take steel over aluminum any day.. Well you call this guys comment a EPIC FAIL ?? whens the last time you served in the military and went on patrol ?? in your living room playing COD?
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I didn't call the guy's comments an epic fail. I called the weight of the rifle an epic fail and it is.

I don't expect anyone to take my word for it. Do a little reading about the SIG55X. It's really only seen combat with PMC's in Iraq and A-stan. The Swiss haven't fought any wars with it. It had issues - serious issues.

At one point KevinB opted, if I recall, to carry a VZ58 in Afghanistan over the free Sig552 they issues him because the SIGs operated VERY poorly in actual combat.

I have a Canadian SIG (which by the way is NOT a 55X) and it is a nice range rifle. If I had to take a 5.56 to war, I'd take an AR - not my SIG.

And how is the charging handle hitting you in the nose? If your C7/M16/AR15 has a worn out upper, that is not the design's fault, it's your unit's WT's fault for not fixing it for you and if you feel that strongly about it, you need to fill out a UCR and voice your concerns up the CoC. Read CFAO 71-12 and submit a CF777A.
 
Claven2 said:
Spoken like someone who has never had to carry a SIG 55X on a patrol.

The Sig weighs almost twice as much as an AR and has had problems with the guide rods breaking in them on full-auto fire.

EPIC FAIL.

Great range guns though.
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Its called the gas piston not the guide rod.

The SIG 550 has a metal gas piston, forward spring design, and has had no "problems" in the Past 20 years that I am aware of.
The 552's gas piston moves through the bolt carrier with the recoil spring behind it on a recoil spring guide, weak design.

The 552 and the 552 only used plastic in the gas system (later replaced with metal) and yes some of them still broke (cracked carrier, broken recoil spring guides). Yes they s**t the bed on that one. The 552 is no longer made and has been replaced with the 553 which uses the same design as the original 550 service rifle.

The 550/Stgw90/551/553 are very good weapons, the 552 with its rearward spring design and hollowed out bolt carrier was a fail.

Lets not condemn the entire 55X line because of the 552, big design difference.

As for the weight, I've humped the C7 at work and my Classic green in the bush on my own time. Weight is relative to how long you've been carrying the rifle and how tired you are. The Elcan and 30rd mag evens it out:;)
 
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myweapon.jpg


18" medium profile pencil barrel
AAC black out flash suppressor
DD Lite Rail 12.0 (OMEGA 12 shown, Lite rail is lighter.)
Magpul PMAG with maglevel
Magpul moe grip
Magpul CTR stock
PRI folding gas block integral sight.
Troy rear folding battle sight.
Elcan Spectre DR 1-4x

Huskey%20Amentum%20Sling%201.jpg


Huskey Amentum Slider Sling
 
Bcviking said:
Who was using them there ? private contractors ? im tryin to understand what the ''guide rod '' is? the recoil spring is around the piston itself and the piston rides in a tube ? were these rifles the Swiss made guns or the US made s**tty clones?
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The SG552 Commando has the recoil springs behind the bolt and are prone to breaking.

This issue was solved in the SIG553 by using the wrap around the piston approach of the 550/551 series.
 
Claven2 said:
I didn't call the guy's comments an epic fail. I called the weight of the rifle an epic fail and it is.

I don't expect anyone to take my word for it. Do a little reading about the SIG55X. It's really only seen combat with PMC's in Iraq and A-stan. The Swiss haven't fought any wars with it. It had issues - serious issues.

At one point KevinB opted, if I recall, to carry a VZ58 in Afghanistan over the free Sig552 they issues him because the SIGs operated VERY poorly in actual combat.

I have a Canadian SIG (which by the way is NOT a 55X) and it is a nice range rifle. If I had to take a 5.56 to war, I'd take an AR - not my SIG.

And how is the charging handle hitting you in the nose? If your C7/M16/AR15 has a worn out upper, that is not the design's fault, it's your unit's WT's fault for not fixing it for you and if you feel that strongly about it, you need to fill out a UCR and voice your concerns up the CoC. Read CFAO 71-12 and submit a CF777A.
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Hey tard we are referring to the full size 550/ Stgw90 service rifle not that 552 commando carbine .. Steel has a longer service life, is tougher than aluminum and carrying it puts hair on your balls .. take that to the bank ..
 
Fact of the matter is that all across the world units who get to choose what kind of equipment they use choose AR platforms. Ergonomically it is unmatched, I'm aware of updated drills for AKs / CZs and I assume those same drills exist for the 55x, those drills just work around a problem, they aren't working the weapon the way it was really designed to be used. Personal opinion and I'll admit to very limited experience with the 55x.
 
Bcviking said:
guide rods ? do you mean op rod ? The carbine versions with a shorter gas system and no bipod weigh not much more than a AR type rifle .. I find it hard to believe the Swiss would adopt a gun that breaks under full auto fire ? The SIG family of rifles are regarded by experts world wide as the most accurate and durable assault rifle out there ..
i would be willing to bet a SIG 550 would beat a M16/ C7 an any torture test given ... I admit the gun is a bit over built but if i had to pick one gun the 550 or C7 it would be a SIG because the service life is way longer .. I hate AR uppers for the fact the T handle locking notch wears out then you have the handle hitting you nose while firing , i take steel over aluminum any day.. Well you call this guys comment a EPIC FAIL ?? whens the last time you served in the military and went on patrol ?? in your living room playing COD?

Hey tard we are referring to the full size 550/ Stgw90 service rifle not that 552 commando carbine .. Steel has a longer service life, is tougher than aluminum and carrying it puts hair on your balls .. take that to the bank ..
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Dude, you should probably not only make an apology for your over the top rants and insults, but another one for mentioning the Carbine in your own words when addressing weight, and then saying someone can't keep up to you as you are talking about the full size. It was rather confusing to follow.

Seriously man, it is the internet, you don't know who you are talking to, and either does he, so the chest thumping should probably be saved for someplace else.

As for your statements about the "service life is way longer", "regarded by experts world wide" (more so than the AR?), "T handle locking notches wearing out" and hit you in the nose, and preferring a heavier rifle over a lighter one to "put hair on your balls", I would really like to hear more. Seriously. I don't think the Sig is a bad choice, but I am kinda partial to the AR platform and would like some insight into your comments, how you came to them, and why.

As for the replacement for the C7? Nothing currently out there is that much better (if it is at all) than the C7 Platform that we would abandoned one for the other. The platform easily has another 20 years in it, so I don't think its' replacement even exists yet. It will have to be a pretty big leap forward to justify the cost of changing everything from the platform, parts, and training. We might even have it 30 years from now and just make incremental changes along the way just as we have since it was adopted.
 
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Claven2 said:
Nice. Maybe read the forum rules about personal attacks.

Welcome to my ignore list.

[/CONTRIBUTION TO THIS THREAD]
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go cry some more buddy .. i really dont care what you do ,, i dont live on a computer and forums like you , i got better things to worry about .
 
FTW Syntax said:
myweapon.jpg


18" medium profile pencil barrel
AAC black out flash suppressor
DD Lite Rail 12.0 (OMEGA 12 shown, Lite rail is lighter.)
Magpul PMAG with maglevel
Magpul moe grip
Magpul CTR stock
PRI folding gas block integral sight.
Troy rear folding battle sight.
Elcan Spectre DR 1-4x

Huskey%20Amentum%20Sling%201.jpg


Huskey Amentum Slider Sling
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I think you are the closest, up to 18" seems to have the best velocity improvement, over that and it falls to @50fps improvement per inch (assuming SS109-Mk262 class cartridges)
 
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