The Infidel - update w first group

[Canuck525]

I think you may have misread Glocks post?
I believe it was the Nesika action he was referring to as in the over 2K price, which they are. I have several and I know he does too, now granted these were purchased in 2008 when our dollars brought .80 USD.

Also just to clear something up, since this thread was started almost 2 years ago, we have refined our machining and as I recently posted we are trying to come in at a price point similar to which our closest competitors actions sell for (in Canada) which is in the $1600.0 range. This will still just be a projection until we get into full production.
IF you read my posts from this year, a few pages back, I stated that we STILL have not determined what these would sell for yet.
What a competitors US price is has nothing to do with things here, there are additional costs in importing US made things that it seems everyone fails to include or think of.

Pricing can not be based on the prototypes as they take minimally 10 times longer to make than the ones you build after all the final programs are written and have every aspect worked out. Only THEN 1 can figure out what final cost is so as to establish what something will sell for.

I fail to see why you think that we should try and offer something that is new, "cheaper"? We won't be in business long if we sell everything at cost or below just so the "cheap" guys will buy it.

My plan is to be in business for a very long time, that way in the unlikely event that 1 of our products does have an issue we can deal with it unlike some companies who are no longer in business and thereby leaving their customers spinning in the wind with a broken gun.
1 MAJOR advantage of anything made in Canada is that it is serviced IN Canada, sending a regulated item like a firearm back to the foreign country it was made in for repair is NOT an easy task.

There will always be skeptics who will jump to a conclusion about something new, like smokeless gunpowder. BUT those who opt to educate themselves about a new product may be pleasantly surprised

I am glad you are happy with your Barnards, they are decent foreign made actions to be sure. But wouldn't it be nice to try and help support the Canadian economy rather than some foreign country?

First off, I said cheaper OR at least COMPETITIVE.

Secondly, there are those who will stroke your ego and tell you what you want to hear BUT if you put yourself in the consumers shoes and think about it I believe what I am saying may make sense to you.....

 

[Glock-a-maniac]

I honestly think that what you're saying DOESN"T make sense.

thanks Rick for clearing up the 2G comment I made. I was in fact referring to the Nesika action.

As for the Barnards, I agree they are a well built action for their intended application which is primarily bench rest shooting. What ATRS has done, much like Nesika and a few others, is brought bench rest tolerances to the tactical market. This is something that is not often seen. I'm not saying for an instant, and I think Rick would agree, building tight tolerance actions for the military because actions like Surgen and PGW amoung others have built in tolerances to deal with conditions that most shooters will never incounter with their custom rifle. The manufacturers of these guns will also agree their accuracy tolerances are aimed towards that market also where as ATRS tolerances are aimed towards 1/4MOA accuracy, much like bench rest shooters are acustom too.

I didn't say for a instant the Barnard trigger wasn't a good trigger because it is but you have to admit the Barnard action is limited to what it can be dropped into. McMillan may or may not inlet for that action, Cadex Defense, HS, Ashbury, Tube Gun manufacturers amoung a lot of other stock makers don't inlet for Barnard. Ian makes a nice stock, no question. I'm just saying, if you want to add a Accuracy Internation mag system to your action, forget, if you want a rail with more MOA, prepare to wait, while guns like Remingtons, Savage, ATRS will be able to offer you more choice over all.

As for your comment regarding stroking egos, I resent that!!! ANYONE that knows me knows I'll call it like it is and if I have to comment negatively, I'll choose my words but just so know, I AM THE COMSUMER!! And guess what, I'm wearing shoes.

 

[hend238]

Phew! What a read! I'm excited. Yeah your actions are a lot more expensive but I'm buying one just for the cool maple leaf. Seriously let us know when the Mavericks are up to full production.

 

[Glock-a-maniac]

Phew! What a read! I'm excited. Yeah your actions are a lot more expensive but I'm buying one just for the cool maple leaf. Seriously let us know when the Mavericks are up to full production.

ONce again. No confirmed price yet.

 

[Canuck525]

I honestly think that what you're saying DOESN"T make sense.

thanks Rick for clearing up the 2G comment I made. I was in fact referring to the Nesika action.

As for the Barnards, I agree they are a well built action for their intended application which is primarily bench rest shooting. What ATRS has done, much like Nesika and a few others, is brought bench rest tolerances to the tactical market. This is something that is not often seen. I'm not saying for an instant, and I think Rick would agree, building tight tolerance actions for the military because actions like Surgen and PGW amoung others have built in tolerances to deal with conditions that most shooters will never incounter with their custom rifle. The manufacturers of these guns will also agree their accuracy tolerances are aimed towards that market also where as ATRS tolerances are aimed towards 1/4MOA accuracy, much like bench rest shooters are acustom too.

I didn't say for a instant the Barnard trigger wasn't a good trigger because it is but you have to admit the Barnard action is limited to what it can be dropped into. McMillan may or may not inlet for that action, Cadex Defense, HS, Ashbury, Tube Gun manufacturers amoung a lot of other stock makers don't inlet for Barnard. Ian makes a nice stock, no question. I'm just saying, if you want to add a Accuracy Internation mag system to your action, forget, if you want a rail with more MOA, prepare to wait, while guns like Remingtons, Savage, ATRS will be able to offer you more choice over all.

As for your comment regarding stroking egos, I resent that!!! ANYONE that knows me knows I'll call it like it is and if I have to comment negatively, I'll choose my words but just so know, I AM THE COMSUMER!! And guess what, I'm wearing shoes.

Really?

 

[hend238]

ONce again. No confirmed price yet.

Ok fair enough but they will be more expensive than most. I doubt the confirmed price will come in at say $1200. Regardless, I intend to buy one and I'm willing to pay more for an action that I'm convinced will be worth it, for many reasons. As many people have stated, it's exciting to have a Canadian company fabricating its own actions. I'd rather deal with Calgary traffic to get my action than an export permit and border services even if it costs me $500 more for example.

 

[acrashb]

They say it makes the action stronger but if you want to shoot further then a +20MOA rail has, you can't just pop it off and add a +30 or +40.

For the very rare shooter that needs more than 20moa, barrett makes these rings:
http://www.barrett.net/optics/exrings

 

[timmy204]

I honestly think that what you're saying DOESN"T make sense.

thanks Rick for clearing up the 2G comment I made. I was in fact referring to the Nesika action.

As for the Barnards, I agree they are a well built action for their intended application which is primarily bench rest shooting. What ATRS has done, much like Nesika and a few others, is brought bench rest tolerances to the tactical market. This is something that is not often seen. I'm not saying for an instant, and I think Rick would agree, building tight tolerance actions for the military because actions like Surgen and PGW amoung others have built in tolerances to deal with conditions that most shooters will never incounter with their custom rifle. The manufacturers of these guns will also agree their accuracy tolerances are aimed towards that market also where as ATRS tolerances are aimed towards 1/4MOA accuracy, much like bench rest shooters are acustom too.

I didn't say for a instant the Barnard trigger wasn't a good trigger because it is but you have to admit the Barnard action is limited to what it can be dropped into. McMillan may or may not inlet for that action, Cadex Defense, HS, Ashbury, Tube Gun manufacturers amoung a lot of other stock makers don't inlet for Barnard. Ian makes a nice stock, no question. I'm just saying, if you want to add a Accuracy Internation mag system to your action, forget, if you want a rail with more MOA, prepare to wait, while guns like Remingtons, Savage, ATRS will be able to offer you more choice over all.

As for your comment regarding stroking egos, I resent that!!! ANYONE that knows me knows I'll call it like it is and if I have to comment negatively, I'll choose my words but just so know, I AM THE COMSUMER!! And guess what, I'm wearing shoes.

So being an expert on custom actions I guess you already new that surgeon actions have as tight of tolerences as benchrest actions once the bolt is down.When the bolt is opened they have more clearance for reliable operation in dirty conditions. You probably just forgot to mention this.

 

[BigUglyMan]

Hay big ugly boy, I am sure you have several of those infidel action!

Yeah, the first three produced.

 

[Glock-a-maniac]

So being an expert on custom actions I guess you already new that surgeon actions have as tight of tolerences as benchrest actions once the bolt is down.When the bolt is opened they have more clearance for reliable operation in dirty conditions. You probably just forgot to mention this.

I think I mentioned they have built in tolerance. You would think that actions like Surgen would have 100% lug contact but the first one I handled was obviously a reject they figured they'd flog off the Canada because not only was the rail not straight, and unfortunately the one ring had to be shimmed so that the windage knob would actually get the gun on target, there wasn't 100% lug contact which was surprising.
The couple I've handled after that were very much the same also in that even though once built, with pressure on the bolt, the lock up is tight, checking the lug contact by test lapping them showed that lapping was necessary. The rails were straight though.
That has just been my experience with Surgen thus far.

 

[Glock-a-maniac]

For the very rare shooter that needs more than 20moa, barrett makes these rings:
http://www.barrett.net/optics/exrings

I'm glad someone started manufacturing a bandage for guns with 0MOA built into the rail. Accuracy International and their AX50 just accomplished that. Can anyone tell me why they would build a 50cal rifle with a completely flat top?

 

[Canuck525]

This ain't no April fools joke guys. The actions ARE at the Calgary gun show on display.
The tolerances are tight enough for BR work. With NOT fluting the bolt body they will work well as designed for Tactical.
The bolts are not interchangeable with the rem 700 as they are larger in diameter, this was done so as to ensure no loss of integrity of the bolt for use of the M16 style extractor.

We have not finalized the pricing yet but expect them to be in the same range as Surgeon, Dakota or Nesika at about $1900.00 for the complete action less trigger.

The 1st run will be with bolt faces for 308 or similar calibers.
We will be maintaining production year as part of the serial number.

I based my comments on your very own. So, no need to get hostile. I read some of this thread cause your Action interested me. I was simply giving my perspective on it but I can see it is defintiely not wanted so I will stay out of this thread from now on...
cheers

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

I based my comments on your very own. So, no need to get hostile. I read some of this thread cause your Action interested me. I was simply giving my perspective on it but I can see it is defintiely not wanted so I will stay out of this thread from now on...
cheers

I went back to the original post of over a year ago where a possible projected price was mentioned and fixed it.

 

[Tomochan]

I'm outraged: a custom action, machined to bench rest tolerances actually costing more than a SPS or Savage. Where will things end ?

 

[Haagen_Dazs]

I'm glad someone started manufacturing a bandage for guns with 0MOA built into the rail. Accuracy International and their AX50 just accomplished that. Can anyone tell me why they would build a 50cal rifle with a completely flat top?

So you can put one of these bad boys on it: 120MOA (36 mils) of elevation adjustment inside a 35mm tube!!

Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50. All it needs to compete with the S&B is more mag and a 56mm objective... Sorry if I sidetrack, just love drooling over Vortex optics...

 

[Glock-a-maniac]

So you can put one of these bad boys on it: 120MOA (36 mils) of elevation adjustment inside a 35mm tube!!

Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50. All it needs to compete with the S&B is more mag and a 56mm objective... Sorry if I sidetrack, just love drooling over Vortex optics...

THis is tons of scope for this particular application. Who am I kidding. I've got a 45MOA rail on my PGW LRT-3 50 with a 100MOA scope , 45MOA off bottom from my Nightforce 5.5-20.

Rick says good things about Vortex but I haven't looked through their glass. I'd have to play with their scopes to develope an opinion.

 

[hend238]

So you can put one of these bad boys on it: 120MOA (36 mils) of elevation adjustment inside a 35mm tube!!

Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50. All it needs to compete with the S&B is more mag and a 56mm objective... Sorry if I sidetrack, just love drooling over Vortex optics...

Are Vortex optics any good? I know nothing about them. How do they compare to say Leupold which is a pretty good standard to compare against?

 

[marcoman]

Are Vortex optics any good? I know nothing about them. How do they compare to say Leupold which is a pretty good standard to compare against?

I looked at the scope that is pictured the other day. For the money I would stick with Nightforce(Nightforce is actually less expensive).

It had nice glass, decent feeling adjustments, and a solid build.... but the rubber power and eyepiece ring look cheap and the Illumination dial borrowed from NC Star.

At $1500 yeah, maybe. At $2300+ no thanks.

 

[Haagen_Dazs]

who's selling them for $2300?

 

[Blackcloud]

Might be some slight confusion between the price of the vortex scope and the NF. The Vortex pictured (Razor HD) is their highest end and is a first focal plane scope. The MSRP is $2750 which is on par or even towards the cheaper end for a scope of this function. The Nightforce FFP scope is right around the $3k mark.

Both are fantastic scopes but I give the edge to NF, built heavier, better glass (by my eyes).