The IWI Carmel: Initial Thoughts and Observations **Range Report added on post #48**

wannabe said:
I hate to be "that guy" but am I missing something? Is there some theory out there as to why the Ottawa chitheads won't prohib these on a whim?
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I'd be lying if I said that the thought wasn't in the back of my mind when I ordered it, but I'm thinking that the current government has less appetite for these performative stunts than our previous government did, and given the crapshow that the last ban/confiscation program turned out to be, hopefully has no appetite for opening another can of worms, especially with everything else going in the country now. I remember quite clearly when I was ordering my first FS2000 in 2010 the pause I had before pressing the "buy" button that it could get banned, but I ordered it anyway, and I got fourteen years of shooting enjoyment from that rifle (plus its successor and a few others) before it was banned.

I also wanted to "push back" against the government's efforts to diminish shooting in Canada. I was around in the the mid-90s when we lost nearly everything except ARs and pushing back then helped increase the popularity of black rifles far beyond what they were pre-1990s. They ban most of my favourite rifles? Well, I'm just going to buy new ones and enjoy shooting them. And, if it does get banned I've enjoyed shooting the rifle this summer and fall, and getting a chance to go out shooting with my Dad out a couple of weeks ago was priceless.

The enjoyment I've had creating this thread and shooting the Carmel since I got has been the most shooting-related fun I've had in a long time.

Edited to add: here is a pic of how the rifle looks now.
67YhCPD.jpeg
 
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Master-G said:
I'd be lying if I said that the thought wasn't in the back of my mind when I ordered it, but I'm thinking that the current government has less appetite for these performative stunts than our previous government did, and given the crapshow that the last ban/confiscation program turned out to be, hopefully has no appetite for opening another can of worms, especially with everything else going in the country now. I remember quite clearly when I was ordering my first FS2000 in 2010 the pause I had before pressing the "buy" button that it could get banned, but I ordered it anyway, and I got fourteen years of shooting enjoyment from that rifle (plus its successor and a few others) before it was banned.

I also wanted to "push back" against the government's efforts to diminish shooting in Canada. I was around in the the mid-90s when we lost nearly everything except ARs and pushing back then helped increase the popularity of black rifles far beyond what they were pre-1990s. They ban most of my favourite rifles? Well, I'm just going to buy new ones and enjoy shooting them. And, if it does get banned I've enjoyed shooting the rifle this summer and fall, and getting a chance to go out shooting with my Dad out a couple of weeks ago was priceless.

The enjoyment I've had creating this thread and shooting the Carmel since I got has been the most shooting-related fun I've had in a long time.

Edited to add: here is a pic of how the rifle looks now.
67YhCPD.jpeg
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I couldn't agree more and I'm happy you've got to enjoy your new rifle and make meaningful memories with it the past few months. I never actually considered that any of my rifles would get banned pre-2020 (I was just a kid in the early/mid '90s) and my only interest in NR was to be able to shoot on crown land. Obviously in the past 6+ years we've been living under the spectre of constant bans so the mindset has changed quite a bit. One of the things I miss a lot about the pre-2020 times is the online community of guys sharing their builds, range results, etc. Whole sub-forums that were once vibrant here have essentially disappeared since the firearms were banned (think M14) and everyone now keeps things a lot closer to their chest (understandably). This isn't an accident, the forces in the LPC that push gun bans are intent on destroying "gun culture" (whatever that means to you) within this country so pushing back and spreading the word is something we have to do, imo.

So to everyone worried about whether a new gun will get banned or not, buy it if you can afford it and enjoy it while you can.
 
nico328 said:
People are just scared it will be banned before any store finally received their first shipment of Carmel csr18.
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I don't think they're going to ban anything else in the short term. Just my worthless opinion, nothing to back it except a hunch, but I think Carney is going to wait until after the court challenges are done.
 
infidel29 said:
I don't think they're going to ban anything else in the short term. Just my worthless opinion, nothing to back it except a hunch, but I think Carney is going to wait until after the court challenges are done.
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Yeah I have the same feeling. They will wait until the court case is over.

Then they will likely change the whole classification system like they've been talking about.... and ban all semis.
 
Thanks for the effort in putting together the review. Good job.
Trying hard to not reach for my wallet🤔.
Although i have a long history of folding like a cardboard suitcase when it comes to fire arm purchases🤦‍♀️.
We’ll see.
Again, thanks for the review.
 
True Shadows said:
Yeah I have the same feeling. They will wait until the court case is over.

Then they will likely change the whole classification system like they've been talking about.... and ban all semis.
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I don't think so. I think this is becoming a political hot potato issue. In order for them to ban all semi's, they would have to mandate an expropriation of property type legislation in order to to remain in line with our Constitution. Short strokes, they'd have to buy them-all. No voluntary anything. If you own a semi, it's verboden, turn it in for compensation by such and such a date.

The problem is that not even the best entrenched party could survive or chance spending how many billions of dollars to rectify...what exactly? I'm suggesting they won't have the political appetite to continue gun ban BS. Trudeau and his sh1theads were anomalous. This issue has always been an NDP far left issue. To maintain power, the Liberals have to return back to centrist politics, and Carney knows it.
 
infidel29 said:
I don't think they're going to ban anything else in the short term. Just my worthless opinion, nothing to back it except a hunch, but I think Carney is going to wait until after the court challenges are done.
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I think you are correct abotu that.

I also somewhat suspect that Carney hopes the SCC rules against the gun ban. He doesn't really care about guns, he doesn't even seem to really care about crime. If the court challenge is successful he can wash his hands of it, come up with some vague response about tightening gun control and then put it on a shelf.

Here is a question- If the SCC upholds the government position and they want to add new guns to the ban list, then won't they have to re open the compensation part of the program again to allow owners of newly banned guns apply for compensation $$?
 
Painkillers said:
I don't think so. I think this is becoming a political hot potato issue. In order for them to ban all semi's, they would have to mandate an expropriation of property type legislation in order to to remain in line with our Constitution. Short strokes, they'd have to buy them-all. No voluntary anything. If you own a semi, it's verboden, turn it in for compensation by such and such a date.

The problem is that not even the best entrenched party could survive or chance spending how many billions of dollars to rectify...what exactly? I'm suggesting they won't have the political appetite to continue gun ban BS. Trudeau and his sh1theads were anomalous. This issue has always been an NDP far left issue. To maintain power, the Liberals have to return back to centrist politics, and Carney knows it.
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Is there a clause in the charter that requires financial compensation for seized property?
 
Gatehouse said:
I think you are correct abotu that.

I also somewhat suspect that Carney hopes the SCC rules against the gun ban. He doesn't really care about guns, he doesn't even seem to really care about crime. If the court challenge is successful he can wash his hands of it, come up with some vague response about tightening gun control and then put it on a shelf.

Here is a question- If the SCC upholds the government position and they want to add new guns to the ban list, then won't they have to re open the compensation part of the program again to allow owners of newly banned guns apply for compensation $$?
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I would think so, but I'd like to know Runkle's take on it
 
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