The Legal Answer to using quick change barrel systems at the range (ACR 18.5 to 12.5)

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Brian46 said:
and the evidence will show it is registered as a restricted regardless of the modifications you did that a verifier did not verify and the CFC/RCMP were not notified about so the firearm could be reclassed.
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And the gun will be presented in the state it was seized, in a format that meets non-restricted classification in the code.

How can someone be convicted of having a restricted firearm if the firearm isn't in restricted form?

The fact it is registered as restricted, doesn't mean the gun is actually in a restricted format.

I'm speaking of two things. I want it in writing to prevent getting charged in the first place. Just like people that carry bulletin 72 around to keep from getting in trouble with a pistol mag in a rifle.

The second is what actually makes a gun restricted or non restricted. It isn't the fact it is registered, it is what the gun itself is set up as. Registration is a result of the gun's features dictating registration must occur. Verification allows for a determination of the features. But verification does not change the features, just records them.
 
mmattockx said:
No, you are wrong. The firearm is classified as whatever the CFC has it on record as. Changing parts does not officially alter that classification until the paperwork has been submitted and processed by the CFC and the new classification approved. There are bolt action rifles built on the XP-100 pistol action. They remain classified as restricted even though they meet every technical requirement for non-restricted. This has been going for years like this, is the registration on those rifles wrong as well?

cr5's call simply confirms this. The classification does NOT change until the CFC says it changes. Nothing you can do will alter that.


Mark
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Just went back to read cr5's call post. Missed it the first time I skimmed.

Highlights why anything from the CFO given as an opinion should be in writing. Two calls, two totally different interpretations of the law.
 
fenceline said:
And the gun will be presented in the state it was seized, in a format that meets non-restricted classification in the code.

How can someone be convicted of having a restricted firearm if the firearm isn't in restricted form?

The fact it is registered as restricted, doesn't mean the gun is actually in a restricted format.

I'm speaking of two things. I want it in writing to prevent getting charged in the first place. Just like people that carry bulletin 72 around to keep from getting in trouble with a pistol mag in a rifle.

The second is what actually makes a gun restricted or non restricted. It isn't the fact it is registered, it is what the gun itself is set up as. Registration is a result of the gun's features dictating registration must occur. Verification allows for a determination of the features. But verification does not change the features, just records them.
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it shows intent of not getting the firearm reclassified like the law requires
 
fenceline said:
Just went back to read cr5's call post. Missed it the first time I skimmed.

Highlights why anything from the CFO given as an opinion should be in writing. Two calls, two totally different interpretations of the law.
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Two different interpretations because one was from a CFO desk clerk and mine was directly from the RCMP lab employee.
It was that same person that suggested I email firearmident@rcmp-grc.ga.ca to get a written response so I would have it in writing and so that I could post on here the exact opinion of the RCMP lab.
Let's stop arguing about this until we get a written reply from the RCMP.
Instead lets start writing letters to get the AR removed from the restricted by name category. There is nothing about it other than the name that make it restricted.
Or to get barrel length removed from the reasons a firearm is restricted. How does a couple inches make a firearm more or less dangerous?
How about getting our stupid magazine capacity laws changed. 5 rounds or 100 rounds is still dangerous in the wrong hands.


I think I wrote it pretty clearly what the RCMP lab said so there really shouldn't be much reason to keep arguing back and forth.
1. you can put any length barrel you want on a restricted rifle and it is still restricted. It doesn't matter if the barrel is 18.5 inches or 30 inches, it is still a restricted firearm and if you get caught shooting it away from a certified range you will be charged. You must have it re-classified prior to shooting it away from a certified range even if it has a 30 inch barrel.
2. you can not put a restricted length barrel back onto your rifle and take it out shooting after it has been changed to non restricted. If you want to you must re-register the rifle as restricted before you take it to the range. If you get caught you will be charged with possession of an unregistered restricted firearm.
 
This is all BS. where in the firearms act does it say While reclassifying a firearm it cant leave your home till classification is complete. All I've ever seen is that you have to do it within 30 days. why are we listening to these people who make rules up with no authority . Someone needs to get a lawyer. I for one don't give a rats ass. under 18.5 range over 18.5 everywhere
 
fenceline said:
And the gun will be presented in the state it was seized, in a format that meets non-restricted classification in the code.

How can someone be convicted of having a restricted firearm if the firearm isn't in restricted form?

The fact it is registered as restricted, doesn't mean the gun is actually in a restricted format.
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Because the CFO will stand up in court and state that the gun is registered as a restricted. The judge will ask how that is possible since it now looks like a non-restricted and the CFO will say they have a procedure for re-classifying firearms when the technical features change and the judge will ask why you didn't do that. And he will most likely decide that the gun remains a restricted firearm because you didn't jump through the hoops to change that and you are guilty.

You seem to be missing the fact that the CFC gets to decide when your restricted becomes a non-restricted, not you. The law may state the actual technical criteria used to determine classification, but the CFC has the official word on when a gun changes classification.


Mark
 
mmattockx said:
Because the CFO will stand up in court and state that the gun is registered as a restricted. The judge will ask how that is possible since it now looks like a non-restricted and the CFO will say they have a procedure for re-classifying firearms when the technical features change and the judge will ask why you didn't do that. And he will most likely decide that the gun remains a restricted firearm because you didn't jump through the hoops to change that and you are guilty.

You seem to be missing the fact that the CFC gets to decide when your restricted becomes a non-restricted, not you. The law may state the actual technical criteria used to determine classification, but the CFC has the official word on when a gun changes classification.


Mark
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The law says what is restricted and non restricted and prohibited. The CFO interprets the law. The courts get the official word.

We roll the dice.
 
tommygunz said:
This is all BS. where in the firearms act does it say While reclassifying a firearm it cant leave your home till classification is complete. All I've ever seen is that you have to do it within 30 days. why are we listening to these people who make rules up with no authority . Someone needs to get a lawyer. I for one don't give a rats ass. under 18.5 range over 18.5 everywhere
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You are free to do whatever you want wherever you want but don't come on here crying about how unfairly you were treated if you do get caught and charged.
Just because you don't agree with a law doesn't change the fact that you can still get charged for breaking it.
I intended to do the same thing with my ACR but now that I know the facts I am not going to do that. If someone can provide definitive proof that it is legal to do it then I will but until then the best info we have to go on has come directly from the RCMP lab during my phone call to them. If people start getting caught doing this you are risking having them come up with some new controls on firearms with a barrel that doesn't need a gunsmith to change. This could turn into the ACR and the XCR being changed to restricted by name because they can't trust us stupid redneck hillbillies to follow the law.
It's not fair, it makes no sense, and it is stupid but that's the law, like it or not.
 
First off Where is the law I would be breaking. CFOs don't make laws. This is all new for everybody. restricted by name could come from many phone calls by us.
 
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fenceline said:
So if they put in writing, then what?

Verifiers don't classify the gun, then only confirm what the gun is for paperwork purposes.

If the gun is registered as restricted, but meets the definition of a non restricted, the registration is wrong. Regardless of what the paperwork says, there is no way to proceed with charges as the physical evidence does not meet the legal defintion of being restricted if it now is set up as non restricted.

Classification isn't based on what the papers say, but rather what the gun's features are. Registration is valid based on an analysis of the features of classifiction.
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THIS!!!
Why can people not seem to understand that what the cert says, does not make the gun? IF I put a longer barrel on an ACR, it becomes non restricted as soon as the barrel is installed. Yes, they might still have my gun listed on the "system" as restricted, but once the longer barrel is installed it is no longer restricted. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE CERT SAYS! If it was based off of what the certificate says, I could get my hands on a prohibited length barrel for my Glock 26 and be good to go for 30 days "because the cert SAYS it's only restricted"! The fact remains that it is the firearm that dictates the certificate, and not the other way round. I am not suggesting that there won't be issues that could arise from having said long barreled ACR out in the bush while it is still registered as a restricted firearm, but if it ever came to court, there is nothing you could be charged with that would stick. Because with the longer barrel installed it IS a non restricted firearm, DESPITE what the cert might say.
 
polskadude said:
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THIS IS NOT MY PERSONAL ADVICE, DO WITH THIS INFORMATION WHAT YOU WISH. THIS IS SIMPLY ME CALLING THE CFO AND ASKING QUESTIONS (ON DEC 9 2013)
IF YOU DONT THINK ITS LEGAL, GOOD FOR YOU. CALL THE CFO YOURSELF AND PROVE YOURSELF RIGHT OR WRONG, THEN SHARE YOUR FINDINGS. NO ONE HERE CARES ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL OPINION ABOUT THE LAW, HOW YOU THINK IT WORKS, OR HOW IT SHOULD WORK. WE ALL HATE IT EQUALLY
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I called the CFO today and here is the conversation.

I said I have a rifle that has a quick change barrel system installed. Barrels can be changed within 1 minute. I currently have an 18.5" barrel on it, making it non-restricted. I also have a 12.5" barrel at home which would make the rifle restricted.

CFO - "Does the 12.5" barrel would change it from a Semi-Auto."

Myself - "No".

CFO - "Okay."


Myself - "Can I drive to a restricted approved gun range with the 18.5 inch configuration, with no registration, then at the range, put on a 12.5" barrel and use it? "

CFO- "No you cannot, once you change the classification of a firearm to restricted, it must be stored until it is registered. You have 30 days to change registration."


But here is what the officer said I can do!!


CFO - "Register the firearm as restricted with a 12.5" barrel. As soon as you install the 18.5" barrel the rifle becomes non-restricted, and no paperwork/registration is needed. All current paperwork saying it’s restricted because of the 12.5" barrel in not applicable. You can take the rifle to crown land and use it as a non-restricted firearm. As long as the rifle has the 18.5" barrel on it, it trumps all registration, because it becomes non restricted and does not require any registration. You can install the 12.5" at any time where it is legal to do so, (Home, approved restricted gun range), and use it right away because it already has registration for a 12.5" configuration. Remember, as long as the 18.5" barrel is installed, the entire rifle is NON RESTRICTED, even though it has a restricted registration (which says 12.5" on it)."


SOUNDS GOOD TO ME :)

It would be great if someone else could call and ask the same questions, CFO answers are not always the same.
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Seeing as you are in London ON, when you use the term "CFO", are you referring to the Chief Firearms Officer, Chris Wyatt?
Or are you referring to the Chief Firearms Office, and an unnamed person who answered the phone?

Anyone who wants to play games with swapping barrels and the resulting classification changes is skating on thin ice. Lawyer Ed Burlew has reported defending clients who have played this game.
 
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