The most efficient hunting cartridges

rkm456 said:
I'm just taking Chuck Hawks word for it.
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Likewise I’m taking someone else’s printed word for it. I’ll still argue a 257 has noticeably more recoil than a 270 in identical rifles, maybe not a 30-06 vs 300 RUM kind of difference and while some people aren’t bothered by recoil it is the number one reason shooters develop a flinch, perhaps the difference in a 270 vs 257 wouldn’t make a difference in a shooter developing a flinch or not. The biggest argument for me is that performance gains from a magnum are far from proportional to the powder used and the added recoil put together. Now whether that matters is completely a personal choice.

Dogleg said:
Im surprised i never got reported for child abuse.
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I hope your children follow in your footsteps!

I don’t know about the rest of you but I think I’ve beaten on this dead horse long enough!
 
To say recoil is all psychological is utter hog wash. Yes it can be mastered, yes it can be controlled, but it’s affects are also physiological. The psychology comes in where the need for the grand and wonderful and for the awe of others is the motivation for life itself. Which is just fine, but it is what it is.
I had a friend who hunted extensively across the globe. He used the 300 Win Mag almost exclusively and shot everything from pronghorn to Grizzly and Cape Buffalo with it. He also shot his hunting rifles enough that he always had two identical ones at all times so a barrel replacement would not hamper his shooting. He died young, and the last conversation I had with him revolved around recoil. He had had enough, said it wasn’t worth the misery. An 8.5 lb 300 just plain kicked too much and he was gravitating back to the 270.
 
Unholysavage said:
The used firearms room at Cabelas is full of barely-fired 300 win mags, makes me chuckle every time I walk through (and sad that I'll likely never see a nice, light 308 or 270 there). Too many of my friends, and more than a few people on this site, recommend more gun than many people need or can handle. When it comes to "ethical" hunting, the last thing one needs is a damned flinch.
Efficiency vs recoil is a great way to look at things, IMO, as long as one takes into account the animal they're after and the ranges they could be shooting. I'd be willing to bet a shiny nickle that people are alot more sensitive to recoil than want to admit it.
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Its up to the individual to get the trigger time necessary to become competent with cartridges larger than .270; even at that, some whine about the recoil of a .30/06. If you lack the desire to master the tool, you'll never be able to exploit its advantage. Given that the .458 Winchester's powder charge is but 15% of its bullet weight, you should be all over that one in terms of efficiency, but if you don't like the bump on the shoulder generated by a big case .30, you should probably avoid the small case .46s.
 
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Boomer said:
Its up to the individual to get the trigger time necessary to become competent with cartridges larger than .270; even at that, some whine about the recoil of a .30/06. If you lack the desire to master the tool, you'll never be able to exploit its advantage. Given that the .458 Winchester's powder charge is but 15% of its bullet weight, you should be all over that one in terms of efficiency, but if you don't like the bump on the shoulder generated by a big case .30, you should probably avoid a small case .46s.
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saturday!!! cant wait!! finally have the time to zero my brand new WBY 30.06

i have fired a 338 and absolutely loved it! i just cant afford to feed one right now.
 
People are kidding themselves if they believe recoil (and muzzle blast) are not detrimental to marksmanship.

Obviously we can get used to recoil, and if we want to, we can train ourselves to soak up recoil and shoot well at the same time, but few (if any) can shoot a 300 magnum or 375 or 50 BMG 100 times in a row with the same precision as if they were doing it with a .223 or even .308.

I've seen a 9 year old girl who was no larger than the gun shoot my 50 BMG, hit the 300 yard gong and giggle about it, so I know recoil can be a bit subjective, but I'm sure she would have got tired of it by shot number 5 and started to flinch badly. Most hunters are the same. They shoot enough to check the zero and do a bit of practice and kill large animals but if shooting a great volume, will likely will get fatigued faster with higher recoiling guns than if they were shooting milder ones.

There is certainly merit in picking a cartridge that has a more efficient recoil to ballistics ratio, especially these days with the great bullets available. If it gets hunters out practicing a bit more, making better shots on game and making it easier to get new people into shooting and hunting it can only be a good thing.
 
People are kidding themselves if they believe recoil (and muzzle blast) are not detrimental to marksmanship.
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They are also kidding themselves if they think that exterior ballistics don't effect shot placement.If I could light-recoil myself into the V ring I'd use a 22 LR.
 
Lightweight guns have more felt recoil. It's good to see the trend to heavier hunting rifles to increase field accuracy and "marksmanship".:runaway:
 
Dogleg said:
They are also kidding themselves if they think that exterior ballistics don't effect shot placement.If I could light-recoil myself into the V ring I'd use a 22 LR.
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Shot placement is largely dependant on where you aim. ;)

For extended ranges, your bullet and how well you read wind will matter more than horsepower.
 
Gatehouse said:
Shot placement is largely dependant on where you aim. ;)

For extended ranges, your bullet and how well you read wind will matter more than horsepower.
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Aye, there's the rub.Where to aim in dependent on conditions. The better the exterior ballistics the easier it is to deal with conditions because the variables are lessened.

Here's an example from a match last summer that may help illustrate the point.(And prove that I'm a sucker for punishment) Matches are good, because they keep score and selective memory doesn't help. I was using .223 with 80s that would be accurate by anyone's standards, virtually nothing for recoil and easy to shoot. At 1000 we had a gusting left wind and I was spinning between 11 and 17 MOA from shot to shot. I was spinning that turret so fast that it probably looked like an aborigine trying to start a fire. There was a point where I had a notion this is wasn't even fun; but it went away.

The guys with heavy bullet .308s were doing 7 to 11 MOA.

The F Open guys were more like 5-8, but the reality is it was more like 5 and shade back and forth.

What do you think is the easier job? Every error I made in wind was magnified 2 to 3 times compared to the wind efficient ones. Any miniscule gain in precision from light recoil is lost in the mess of 10-12 MOA difference in drifts.
 
Dogleg said:
Aye, there's the rub.Where to aim in dependent on conditions. The better the exterior ballistics the easier it is to deal with conditions because the variables are lessened.

Here's an example from a match last summer that may help illustrate the point.(And prove that I'm a sucker for punishment) Matches are good, because they keep score and selective memory doesn't help. I was using .223 with 80s that would be accurate by anyone's standards, virtually nothing for recoil and easy to shoot. At 1000 we had a gusting left wind and I was spinning between 11 and 17 MOA from shot to shot. I was spinning that turret so fast that it probably looked like an aborigine trying to start a fire. There was a point where I had a notion this is wasn't even fun; but it went away.

The guys with heavy bullet .308s were doing 7 to 11 MOA.

The F Open guys were more like 5-8, but the reality is it was more like 5 and shade back and forth.

What do you think is the easier job? Every error I made in wind was magnified 2 to 3 times compared to the wind efficient ones. Any miniscule gain in precision from light recoil is lost in the mess of 10-12 MOA difference in drifts.
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How were the guys using 30-378 WBY's doing?
 
Twisted Sprocket said:
I’m sure they were ear to ear! I misunderstood Dogleg in thinking he was suggesting starting them on a larger caliber, but as has been pointed that young shooters can handle them with someone teaching them.
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But, guys being guys, the "I can handle anything" attitude in front of their buddies comes out. Flinch is a serious issue for some folks, some others not so much, but I'd hate to get a youngster started off with a bad flinch.
Old cowboy rifles are great starters. Big bullets that are so slow you can year the "thwak" at 100 yards when they go home. Recoil pretty much zero, they can be used to train even small kids, and cost SFA to reload if you cast your own, so you can shoot all day.
 
John Y Cannuck said:
But, guys being guys, the "I can handle anything" attitude in front of their buddies comes out. Flinch is a serious issue for some folks, some others not so much, but I'd hate to get a youngster started off with a bad flinch.
Old cowboy rifles are great starters. Big bullets that are so slow you can year the "thwak" at 100 yards when they go home. Recoil pretty much zero, they can be used to train even small kids, and cost SFA to reload if you cast your own, so you can shoot all day.
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a friend of my makes reduced loads for his rifle, so his son can shoot the larger caliber. save on a bit of powder lol
 
Gatehouse said:
How were the guys using 30-378 WBY's doing?
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Werent any there. Paper just isnt that hard to shoot through, and 15 shot strings plus sighters would make short work of the barrel. There is a parallel to be drawn though, many of the performance but relatively common hunting cartridges give up little or nothing to the favored F Open cartridges and many of the standard hunting cartridges compare to the lameass end of the FTR spectrum. The highend isnt in the cards when you take away the 30-32” barrels.


Lets take it straight to hunting rifles. When shooting at my own range on steel, wind is practically everything. If I put down a.300, 7-300, 28 Nosler, 7 STW and pick up a .308 Ive got a quick way of adjusting my wind holds or dials. I just double it. That mild recoiling cartridge doesnt make hitting easier, it makes it harder. A lot harder.
 
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