The most efficient hunting cartridges

Why not? said:
Without exception, before heading out with a hunter I was guiding, we always checked his rifle sight-in at base camp by shooting prone off a pack or a rolled up jacket. It was amazing how often the rifles were not even close at 200 yards, let alone 400.

Most of them appreciated the checkup and adjustment of the scope. The few who didn't invariably did not do well, and always had an excuse. :rolleyes:

Best part of the exercise was I knew before we headed up a mountain how close we needed to get. Fortunately, because of the terrain they live in, most sheep are taken well within 200 yards. Just takes an hour longer. :)

Ted
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i made a lovely counts in one season of our issues with rifles sightings and optics ...

we had on average 3 hunters ech guide.

half of the rifles/scope were not even in at 100 meters and on that half half of those had scopes not mounted or not properly done means rifles not shot before the hunt.

so made the math on a season of 14 weeks with 4 guides and it was just for a camp. half of them had issues with the sighting and 25% of the hunters shown up with a big problem on there scopes or scope not mounted ... 168 hunters 84 42 .... think about those numbers and how some are unprepared ... remember one sleeping bag one duffel bag ...
 
flashman2 said:
Sounds responsible and ethical.

"Screw those stupid ballistic calculations or actually verifying my dope, I'll just take this here other box of ammo for a different caliber and wing it..."
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rifleman762 said:
So what you're saying is you took a pot shot at a living animal without being confident you could make a clean kill? No offense, but I wouldn't hunt with you.

Btw, I NEVER "guesstimate" my drop. I KNOW my drop. At 400 yards my 300 WM is dropping 13.1" or 3.1 MOA with 6.4" of drift in a 10 mph wind (at 7000' elevation).
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I guess people here are too brickheaded to think critically and take a post for its' intent rather than a literal translation. Last day of season with a tag to fill, and hunting with a buddy you've shot with and discussed the differences is more an informed estimate rather than a crap shoot. We were using the same brand of bullets, we'd both shot both and compared. Guess what? The 180 grain .30-06 Barnes I was using is a 23 inch drop at 400. My buddy's, same brand, 140 grains is 18.3. His box of ammo was with us, mine wasn't but we knew it was similar drop from range time. Would I make that call on a deer? No. On a moose? Every day. Go ##### yer hat.
 
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pete dobinson said:
This is why we shouldn't shoot at game past 400 yds. 400 is an easy shot in prime conditions, on a moose size target, if you are a competent marksmen. You should already know your bullet drop at that range. Its when you get past 400 that bullets really start to drop off. Know the distance to the target and stay within 400yds. There is no guesstimating past 400 yds.
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Which is why I took that shot on a moose, knowing I was stretching my capability without better knowledge- wouldn't do so on anything smaller given the same conditions. Had I had the dope with me for the ammo I had, on a deer in the same situation, yes. I'm a competent enough marksman to be able to take imperfect data and make a judgment call. Too many here think they're experts and the rest are hillbillies...
 
NorthernCX said:
I guess people here are too brickheaded to think critically and take a post for its' intent rather than a literal translation. Last day of season with a tag to fill, and hunting with a buddy you've shot with and discussed the differences is more an informed estimate rather than a crap shoot. We were using the same brand of bullets, we'd both shot both and compared. Guess what? The 180 grain .30-06 Barnes I was using is a 23 inch drop at 400. My buddy's, same brand, 140 grains is 18.3. His box of ammo was with us, mine wasn't but we knew it was similar drop from range time. Would I make that call on a deer? No. On a moose? Every day. Go ##### yer hat.
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do you need to fill the tag at any cost? is the situation at home that bad that you need the meat taking the chance to wound the moose? you re the only one that can answer those questions. i have no problem going home empty handed if i know i did not take the chance not knowing enough the trajectory ... it is rare enough having two different boxes of ammo with different grains without doing adjustement. but you were there not me.
 
NorthernCX said:
Which is why I took that shot on a moose, knowing I was stretching my capability without better knowledge- wouldn't do so on anything smaller given the same conditions. Had I had the dope with me for the ammo I had, on a deer in the same situation, yes. I'm a competent enough marksman to be able to take imperfect data and make a judgment call. Too many here think they're experts and the rest are hillbillies...
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And the "ignore list" grows...
 
medvedqc said:
do you need to fill the tag at any cost? is the situation at home that bad that you need the meat taking the chance to wound the moose? you re the only one that can answer those questions. i have no problem going home empty handed if i know i did not take the chance not knowing enough the trajectory ... it is rare enough having two different boxes of ammo with different grains without doing adjustement. but you were there not me.
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Honestly, it had been a tough hunting season. I was with my hunting partner who was ready to back me up if necessary. I know my shooting ability, it was a calm day and the shot was across a cut block- essentially shooting at a target the size of a car hood. Again, a judgement call with imperfect information but one my conscience let me take- if other factors such as wind, light, etc had come into play then no, I wouldn't take that same shot. I've gone home empty handed LOTS, believe you me. And we were prepared to track a wounded animal if things went south. Love how people assume the worst in every case in here- which is why I don't post often...
 
Why not? said:
The most mitigating factor in hunting situations is that, by far, most guys have never checked their rifles other than from the bench. Especially at long range, the difference in point of impact between off the bags and field positions can be quite educating.

Ted
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That’s why my biggest range complain is the baffles they CfO made us install, I bring my hunting chair to the range and practice shooting from it. I kind of wish I could set my tree stand up there, but instead I’m going to do that at a buddies farm.
 
NorthernCX said:
Which is why I took that shot on a moose, knowing I was stretching my capability without better knowledge- wouldn't do so on anything smaller given the same conditions. Had I had the dope with me for the ammo I had, on a deer in the same situation, yes. I'm a competent enough marksman to be able to take imperfect data and make a judgment call. Too many here think they're experts and the rest are hillbillies...
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Competant marksmen know there dope at 400. I think we know who belongs in the “hillbilly” camp. You didn’t even know that at 400 the difference between the two would be small enough you didn’t need to reference it on something the size “of a car hood”. Let alone how generous factory ammos listed velocities can be.
 
I know many skilled hunters who wouldn't be able to tell you the muzzle velocity of their ammo within 500 fps. Most of them don't mention how far the shot was in their hunting stories either, it's usually not very far. They also know their limits. They also don't go on the internet .
 
NorthernCX said:
Honestly, it had been a tough hunting season. I was with my hunting partner who was ready to back me up if necessary. I know my shooting ability, it was a calm day and the shot was across a cut block- essentially shooting at a target the size of a car hood. Again, a judgement call with imperfect information but one my conscience let me take- if other factors such as wind, light, etc had come into play then no, I wouldn't take that same shot. I've gone home empty handed LOTS, believe you me. And we were prepared to track a wounded animal if things went south. Love how people assume the worst in every case in here- which is why I don't post often...
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Lungs the size of a car hood? That’s a heck of a moose or a really small car.
 
Slimbo said:
Lungs the size of a car hood? That’s a heck of a moose or a really small car.
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tiny-car.jpg


That looks about right...
 
NorthernCX said:
I guess people here are too brickheaded to think critically and take a post for its' intent rather than a literal translation.
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Oh. What part of it was metaphorical then? I read it as written, rather than looking for hidden meaning. Seems like a straightforward enough account to me.

I'm not how "everything changes in the real world" if you know your dope intimately vs if you don't. You didn't, and had to undertake a tortured guesstimation process. If you know, it's either memorized or taped under a scope cap.

What, exactly, changes in the real world if you know your rifle and ammunition intimately?

Last day of season with a tag to fill,
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So your desire to fill a tag played into your judgement as to whether it was an ethical shot or not?

and hunting with a buddy you've shot with and discussed the differences is more an informed estimate rather than a crap shoot.
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It is, but not MUCH more. Barely a little more. Certainly far short of what I'd call sufficient. Being less bad doesn't make it good.

We were using the same brand of bullets, we'd both shot both and compared.
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What relevance is their being the same brand? They're different calibers, different weights with different BCs at different velocities. Are you saying a 180 gr .308 Barnes shoots closer to a 140 gr .277 Barnes than if they were different brands? In fact the absolute opposite is true: using a higher BC bullet than the Barnes in the .30-06 or a lower BC bullet in the .270 would have them shooting closer together.

Guess what?
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Don't need to. That's kinda the point I'm making.

The 180 grain .30-06 Barnes I was using is a 23 inch drop at 400. My buddy's, same brand, 140 grains is 18.3. His box of ammo was with us, mine wasn't but we knew it was similar drop from range time. Would I make that call on a deer? No. On a moose? Every day. Go ##### yer hat.
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I see. So, to be clear, you're AGAINST splitting hairs and crunching numbers on velocity, drop and windage, but FOR making "informed estimates" in the field using information for a different calibre? Hm. Ok.
 
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NorthernCX said:
I'm a competent enough marksman to be able to take imperfect data and make a judgment call.
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Don't have your dope either memorized, with you on a card or better yet on a phone with ballistic software and an LRF?

We must have different definitions of "competent marksman."

Too many here think they're experts and the rest are hillbillies...
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Well, we know you don't put yourself in the "think I'm an expert" camp, so....
 
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