Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Afternoon guys, been away awhile, indeed it’s my area that sold. There are so many angles to why we made this decision, many of them intensely personal, that it would take an article to cover it. But I can discuss a couple here that likely won’t be common knowledge, and a bit of an inside take on running a mountain goat outfit after the Grizzlies closed.
I naturally agree with the assessment we’re not stepping on any residents toes, I never saw any in the years out here, and quite simply nothing is going to change in that regard. There just isn’t the will or the money for most residents to go out that remote, in that kind of terrain, and Raincoast expressed they have no interest in making any attempts on resident hunting out here. I’ve oft repeated this, but I had to make a business decision, as our house was mortgaged to own this. When the Grizzlies closed 2017, over half our business vaporized. We became 95% reliant on backpack goat hunting, which we made work, but rates are less than half coastal Grizz, and physicality and danger are far, far higher, and far fewer clients can do it. Where mountain goats live means hunting them exclusively for a business is an extreme challenge.
Frankly, one of the biggest challenges in operating a territory like this one isn’t the remoteness, the late season mountain flying, access etc. It’s the average physical fitness of the average, usually American, client. This will probably sound like a pretty odd angle to hear and I don’t want it to come off as lumping all Americans together as unfit, that’s not at all the case. But it’s an important consideration and fits the thread we’re in perfectly to discuss it. What we had, was the best goat ground going, but also the most severe; that’s why it remains so good. You have to talk 2/3rds of your enquiring clients out of it based on physical fitness, and for this trade shows were important as we could see the client and explain what laid ahead. That meant a lot of travel to book correctly, with the right clients. On the phone, everyone thinks they want a challenge and will train for their upcoming hunt; to many it almost seems a selling feature, a reason to get in shape. Often the wealthier the client and the more easily they could afford it, the worse the physical condition and higher the age of the client naturally. It’s a nasty curve for a goat hunting operation.
Very few show up in better shape, too, I even brought guys back on my dime after giving them a chance to get in shape when their first attempt ended in the first few days. On the second attempt, it was heart crushing having these great guys just absolutely broken, and in no better shape than the last time. We got a surprisingly high percentage of them goats, but it often took high wire acts from my guide team. I’m not just saying this for the benefit of the forum, but we were always relieved to get Canadians, Kiwis, Aussies, and Northern Europeans. Even if the physical condition wasn’t always there, there’s a hardness still in most from these places that brought about some inspiring “pushing through it”; we saw that in many Americans too, just overall the US appears to be suffering from declining fitness more than the other regions.
In the goat game, with many notable exceptions, you often get the guys who’d love to hunt sheep one day but hadn’t yet. They often view the much more affordable goat hunt as the stepping stone to try their hand at a mountain backpack hunt, and it’s not the way it should go. Goats are HARD, harder than sheep physically, especially on the coast. Making a living at it, and holding a team together to do it, is even harder. My head guide is 6’2, and mayyyybe 180lbs, rides mountain bikes 100kms for a fun afternoon, and has the right sort of disturbed and pain loving mind for this ####. It would burn him out honestly after two hunts, it would burn any of us out. Trying to cycle guides and keep them fresh, but also maintain the experience afield is really hard. We pulled it off admirably well I like to think, but it was a constant point of stress and always asking too much of the guides. Just running it, the boats, the flying, the hours, packing gear and meat, I honestly feel like it aged me a decade. I’m not quite 40, and went from zero grey hair to enough people are pointing it out.
When the one group this incredible (one of the most beautiful places in the world, frankly) and incredibly hard place to work still was worth real money to made their final offer before moving on to other initiatives, I had to make the smart move. We were making the business work, but it is unbelievably hard going few will properly be able to appreciate without having been there. A good few members here have been there with us, and we had a blast. I have a lifetime of memories and experiences from it, I would never trade away. Now the last point, and I’ve moved on from being worried what people think about it, is we’re going to try the eco tour and conservation game. It was a simple realization that everything I love about the place still exists without the kill, and I can finally hunt and fish with my kids as a dad should. I won’t sugar coat it, I was beginning to resent hunting, when anything is a business it changes it naturally. Most don’t realize little of what makes up an outfitter’s day is what’s envisioned by those dreaming of doing it. Most of the work is off season, and is government forms and paperwork, marketing, sales, constant schedule changes due to clients obligations, forgotten or lost medication or paperwork, weather, floatplane issues, flash floods, etc.
So in a way, this sale is my “divorce” from the business of hunting to be back to the romance of hunting and fishing with my family. I’m ready for it to be fun again. Also, I’m excited to try shorter duration, viewing trips and experiences in a place you can easily show people a good time in, without the kill, what with the hot springs, grizzlies, river floating, fishing and all. If it doesn’t work, no loss to us. And those trips don’t depend on late fall brutal weather seasons and can be done in the summer, with virtually nil overhead as you don’t have to own the territory, and you’re not reliant on changing or vanishing quotas. Prices can come down, durations can be shortened, and you don’t need people in top shape as you’re not climbing to the top of the mountain and carrying 100lbs more down. Lastly, the marketing is done for me and clients are supplied, so I’ll definitely give it a fair shake and be honest with the clientele where we came from. My head guide expressed he’s in and looking forward to it, and I told him I’ll never ask him to be anyone he’s not. We’ll see if that’s accepted, I suspect it will be fun trying.
So, these are all parts of it I hadn’t mentioned before, and hopefully it’s of interest. For the handful who may take exception to it, I’m not going to argue with you, and you’re welcome to your opinion. Lastly, I have to say it’s going to feel good not having to kill a stack of animals to be a success in a given year. There is definitely an element of that I was getting troubled by, and it risked ruining hunting for me. All in all, I feel a sense of liberation about the whole move, wife sure does too. Cheers guys, don’t get on here enough lately my apologies.
I naturally agree with the assessment we’re not stepping on any residents toes, I never saw any in the years out here, and quite simply nothing is going to change in that regard. There just isn’t the will or the money for most residents to go out that remote, in that kind of terrain, and Raincoast expressed they have no interest in making any attempts on resident hunting out here. I’ve oft repeated this, but I had to make a business decision, as our house was mortgaged to own this. When the Grizzlies closed 2017, over half our business vaporized. We became 95% reliant on backpack goat hunting, which we made work, but rates are less than half coastal Grizz, and physicality and danger are far, far higher, and far fewer clients can do it. Where mountain goats live means hunting them exclusively for a business is an extreme challenge.
Frankly, one of the biggest challenges in operating a territory like this one isn’t the remoteness, the late season mountain flying, access etc. It’s the average physical fitness of the average, usually American, client. This will probably sound like a pretty odd angle to hear and I don’t want it to come off as lumping all Americans together as unfit, that’s not at all the case. But it’s an important consideration and fits the thread we’re in perfectly to discuss it. What we had, was the best goat ground going, but also the most severe; that’s why it remains so good. You have to talk 2/3rds of your enquiring clients out of it based on physical fitness, and for this trade shows were important as we could see the client and explain what laid ahead. That meant a lot of travel to book correctly, with the right clients. On the phone, everyone thinks they want a challenge and will train for their upcoming hunt; to many it almost seems a selling feature, a reason to get in shape. Often the wealthier the client and the more easily they could afford it, the worse the physical condition and higher the age of the client naturally. It’s a nasty curve for a goat hunting operation.
Very few show up in better shape, too, I even brought guys back on my dime after giving them a chance to get in shape when their first attempt ended in the first few days. On the second attempt, it was heart crushing having these great guys just absolutely broken, and in no better shape than the last time. We got a surprisingly high percentage of them goats, but it often took high wire acts from my guide team. I’m not just saying this for the benefit of the forum, but we were always relieved to get Canadians, Kiwis, Aussies, and Northern Europeans. Even if the physical condition wasn’t always there, there’s a hardness still in most from these places that brought about some inspiring “pushing through it”; we saw that in many Americans too, just overall the US appears to be suffering from declining fitness more than the other regions.
In the goat game, with many notable exceptions, you often get the guys who’d love to hunt sheep one day but hadn’t yet. They often view the much more affordable goat hunt as the stepping stone to try their hand at a mountain backpack hunt, and it’s not the way it should go. Goats are HARD, harder than sheep physically, especially on the coast. Making a living at it, and holding a team together to do it, is even harder. My head guide is 6’2, and mayyyybe 180lbs, rides mountain bikes 100kms for a fun afternoon, and has the right sort of disturbed and pain loving mind for this ####. It would burn him out honestly after two hunts, it would burn any of us out. Trying to cycle guides and keep them fresh, but also maintain the experience afield is really hard. We pulled it off admirably well I like to think, but it was a constant point of stress and always asking too much of the guides. Just running it, the boats, the flying, the hours, packing gear and meat, I honestly feel like it aged me a decade. I’m not quite 40, and went from zero grey hair to enough people are pointing it out.
When the one group this incredible (one of the most beautiful places in the world, frankly) and incredibly hard place to work still was worth real money to made their final offer before moving on to other initiatives, I had to make the smart move. We were making the business work, but it is unbelievably hard going few will properly be able to appreciate without having been there. A good few members here have been there with us, and we had a blast. I have a lifetime of memories and experiences from it, I would never trade away. Now the last point, and I’ve moved on from being worried what people think about it, is we’re going to try the eco tour and conservation game. It was a simple realization that everything I love about the place still exists without the kill, and I can finally hunt and fish with my kids as a dad should. I won’t sugar coat it, I was beginning to resent hunting, when anything is a business it changes it naturally. Most don’t realize little of what makes up an outfitter’s day is what’s envisioned by those dreaming of doing it. Most of the work is off season, and is government forms and paperwork, marketing, sales, constant schedule changes due to clients obligations, forgotten or lost medication or paperwork, weather, floatplane issues, flash floods, etc.
So in a way, this sale is my “divorce” from the business of hunting to be back to the romance of hunting and fishing with my family. I’m ready for it to be fun again. Also, I’m excited to try shorter duration, viewing trips and experiences in a place you can easily show people a good time in, without the kill, what with the hot springs, grizzlies, river floating, fishing and all. If it doesn’t work, no loss to us. And those trips don’t depend on late fall brutal weather seasons and can be done in the summer, with virtually nil overhead as you don’t have to own the territory, and you’re not reliant on changing or vanishing quotas. Prices can come down, durations can be shortened, and you don’t need people in top shape as you’re not climbing to the top of the mountain and carrying 100lbs more down. Lastly, the marketing is done for me and clients are supplied, so I’ll definitely give it a fair shake and be honest with the clientele where we came from. My head guide expressed he’s in and looking forward to it, and I told him I’ll never ask him to be anyone he’s not. We’ll see if that’s accepted, I suspect it will be fun trying.
So, these are all parts of it I hadn’t mentioned before, and hopefully it’s of interest. For the handful who may take exception to it, I’m not going to argue with you, and you’re welcome to your opinion. Lastly, I have to say it’s going to feel good not having to kill a stack of animals to be a success in a given year. There is definitely an element of that I was getting troubled by, and it risked ruining hunting for me. All in all, I feel a sense of liberation about the whole move, wife sure does too. Cheers guys, don’t get on here enough lately my apologies.
