The old 165gr vs 180gr .30-06 thread...

WhelanLad said:
are you measuring to the tip ? or is it just the photo ............. the 3.340 , 3.400 .34123. all of that is Irelevant at this point in time. That number assists the universal loading of breech to chamber from every manufactorer of 30-06......... to fit inside of 99.9% of magazines made for 30-06. etc.

What YOUR gun can wear 3.450? 3.345 3.333 ? you can work out once an for all then that number is indicative of that gun only....

your on right track i rekon with a half turn twist in on die-- maybe even a 1/4 turn man
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Ya that measurement was right to the tip, but the bullet dropped out of the caliper as I was gonna take the pic.

That caliper is on sale at CTC this week for $24 btw. (regular $45 or something like that). I just picked that up cuz my old Lyman caliper isn't working any more.
 
How much stock do you guys put in trimming/squaring up case mouths, on new cases?

This load I've been frigging around with, I'm using new Winchester brass.

And I've not bothered, but a lot of the necks have small dings and look a bit funky.

Should I be trimming the mouth?

I've just about shot all that new stuff and I'm about ready to resize all that brass.

Like I kinda think I know the answer...

I've also reached the point, where I'm gonna start messing seating depth.
 
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It has been my practice to run any new brass that comes loose in bags, partially into my sizing die - as much to "round out" the neck with the expander ball on inside. I have no intention to size the body, so I do not use case lube - usually can see that the sizing went perhaps 50% of the way down the neck - that usually gets the expander ball all the way through. Is almost just a habit to touch with Lee case gauge trimmer and then with an RCBS chamfering tool - to get tiny bevel on inside of case mouth - maybe 1/3 to 1/2 thickness of the neck. Might be a bunch of "busy work" for my rifles. I mostly load square based bullets, so I like to have that little chamfer inside on case mouth. But I know several guys who load boat tail bullets and simply load cases direct as they come out of the bag. None of us are precision target types - all of us tend to get the deer or coyote that we shoot at.
 
The Hornadys I've been loading are boattails of course, so they easily straighten any little dents and such.

But I've been wondering if the poor groups I've been getting are due to inconsistent case mouths?

So I've decided that once I decap/resize all this brass, I'm going to trim it all.

I'm then going to adjust seating depth, using the Sharpie trick suggested by Coleman.
 
Demonical said:
The Hornadys I've been loading are boattails of course, so they easily straighten any little dents and such.

But I've been wondering if the poor groups I've been getting are due to inconsistent case mouths?

So I've decided that once I decap/resize all this brass, I'm going to trim it all.

I'm then going to adjust seating depth, using the Sharpie trick suggested by Coleman.
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Validating seating depth is one variable that may shed further light on your efforts. The two Erik Cortina videos that you had posted previously (particularly Part 2) had yielded very positive results in my case that involved a very obstinate rifle (also a 30/06).

As already suggested, the Hornady OAL gauge + comparator kits are a great assist should those be at hand.

Nevertheless, here's another excellent demo if something such as the OAL gauge isn't readily available ....

[youtube]qkzh4_hyNqc[/youtube]
 
Demonical said:
The Hornadys I've been loading are boattails of course, so they easily straighten any little dents and such.

But I've been wondering if the poor groups I've been getting are due to inconsistent case mouths?

So I've decided that once I decap/resize all this brass, I'm going to trim it all.

I'm then going to adjust seating depth, using the Sharpie trick suggested by Coleman.
Click to expand...

My reloading experience is quite limited. However, I believe case neck runout will make a difference among other things from what I had experienced.

Reference Post #15 in my thread below where I had attempted somewhat to mimic Erik C's process .....

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2158498-To-do-or-not-to-do
 
Demonical said:
How much stock do you guys put in trimming/squaring up case mouths, on new cases?

This load I've been frigging around with, I'm using new Winchester brass.

And I've not bothered, but a lot of the necks have small dings and look a bit funky.

Should I be trimming the mouth?

I've just about shot all that new stuff and I'm about ready to resize all that brass.

Like I kinda think I know the answer...

I've also reached the point, where I'm gonna start messing seating depth.
Click to expand...

every load i full size at the moment, then run it thru the lee trimmer to trim an then de burr the case mouths.

everytime.
not every time it needs trimming, but il always run the de burr over mouth. this can cause pressure spikes also.


i use a lee case length gauge for 30-06.
a lee zip trimmer to trim.
primer pocket scraper- and a case mouth de burrer.


repetition is key to a degree.
 
with higher charges of powder, what was ya primer tellin ya? were any flattening ? i dont assume they were until maybe top end of charge?
 
I never saw any evidence of pressure, and the mild velocities I experienced would back that up.

I have a Lyman case trimmer, just cuz that was new Win brass I just didn't bother, but after all the reloading articles I've been reading and videos, I am definitely gonna do a lot more work on my cases.
I think I have like 7 of the new cases left, once I fire those off, gonna get after it: resizing, trimming, cleaning plus gonna do the seating adjustment thing.

That new Win brass had lots of issues with dents and stuff, and I'm not so sure about the case mouths. Definitely gonna take a closer look at them, once I'm ready to work them over. I kinda want to do the works , eh?
 
Demonical said:
I never saw any evidence of pressure, and the mild velocities I experienced would back that up.

I have a Lyman case trimmer, just cuz that was new Win brass I just didn't bother, but after all the reloading articles I've been reading and videos, I am definitely gonna do a lot more work on my cases.
I think I have like 7 of the new cases left, once I fire those off, gonna get after it: resizing, trimming, cleaning plus gonna do the seating adjustment thing.

That new Win brass had lots of issues with dents and stuff, and I'm not so sure about the case mouths. Definitely gonna take a closer look at them, once I'm ready to work them over. I kinda want to do the works , eh?
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yes typically the brass comes packaged in plastic bags, which is often throw in boxes of cardboard. before being throwin into a delivery vans cargo, or airplane cargo or ship cargo..... its a soft material an dents and goes out of shape easily.... even after a firing ;)

not uncommon for others to prep new brass......or you may be one of only handful who do not prep new brass lol. :D



RE the primers and velocitys........... i feel as though there is alot to be gained from a higher charge with the seating more on point and the results should speak for themselves.
the depth itself is whats missing from this concoction to turn it leathal.
 
Ok, I did the Sharpie on the bullet thing. Chambered that and 3.360" is what I measured,
This was a once-fired case, where there was just enough neck tension that the bullet inserted into the case, when chambered.

If we seat that bullet .0015" off the lands, 3.360 - 0.0015 = 3.3585".
If we seat that bullet .0030" off the lands, 3.360 - 0.0030 = 3.3570".

I think those numbers are correct? Everything I am reading is suggesting starting at 15thou off the lands out to 30thou.

Next step, I have to decap/resize my brass, then going to trim it, clean it, then onto more loading and testing.




There's a look at how that bullet will be seating relative to holding surface.


5 bullets seated to 3.350" (I had a hard time getting seating depth just right). 55.5grs H4350 under all of these.


Lyman case trimmer.


Cutting brass...


Trimmed and deburred.


Got the Tumbler going, 37 brass in one and 38 in the other.
 
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Demonical said:
Ok, I did the Sharpie on the bullet thing. Chambered that and 3.360" is what I measured,
This was a once-fired case, where there was just enough neck tension that the bullet inserted into the case, when chambered.

If we seat that bullet .0015" off the lands, 3.360 - 0.0015 = 3.3585".
If we seat that bullet .0030" off the lands, 3.360 - 0.0030 = 3.3570".

I think those numbers are correct? Everything I am reading is suggesting starting at 15thou off the lands out to 30thou.

Next step, I have to decap/resize my brass, then going to trim it, clean it, then onto more loading and testing.

<<snip>>
Click to expand...

You've got an extra 0 in there....
3.360 - 0.015 = 3.345
3.360 - 0.030 = 3.330

Otherwise, it looks like you've got the right idea.
 
Demonical, if you're still using the "lead" bullet tips as measuring points, you're going to be out by whatever deformation is present.

Measure a couple of your "bullets" from the base to the tips. Usually there is several thou difference.

It's very simple to make a small block that fits on the ogive diameter and work with that.

The ogives, of the same bullet # type, are extremely consistent at all points

I have seen one fellow that uses a hand held pencil sharpener, from the Dollar store for this purpose and it actually works very well for the diameter/length of bullets he seats.

His wife married a cheap basterd
 
bearhunter said:
Demonical, if you're still using the "lead" bullet tips as measuring points, you're going to be out by whatever deformation is present.

Measure a couple of your "bullets" from the base to the tips. Usually there is several thou difference.

It's very simple to make a small block that fits on the ogive diameter and work with that.

The ogives, of the same bullet # type, are extremely consistent at all points

I have seen one fellow that uses a hand held pencil sharpener, from the Dollar store for this purpose and it actually works very well for the diameter/length of bullets he seats.

His wife married a cheap basterd
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^ Ya wife married a cheap bastard too, haha.

Well my measuring, such as it is, I'm something like 25 thou (0.025") from the lands?

3.36 to 3.35.

As to the lead tips and deformation, yes no doubt, but I'll just go from here.

Thanks bearhunter!

I'm having fun here, and almost feel like I know what I'm doing.
 
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I found an interesting development in the saga of my latest 30-06 that may interest some here. It has a 20” pencil barrel and is on the light weight end of things. Long story short it wasn’t doing any better than 1.5 moa at best, most of the time at 2moa. An old timer I hang out with told me to try a couple 220gr round nose interlocks. Well… wouldn’t you know it, smartened the groups right up to 3/4 moa. Those bullets have no boat tail and the ogive is quite close to the tip compared to todays aerodynamic trends. Those big round nose bullets are an avenue I had never explored.
 
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