You don't see the difference between 50 yards and even 500 yards? So if I offered you a shooting contest with $500 on the line and we had the same sized targets to shoot, say a 4" circle, would you be okay with me shooting at 50 yards, and you shooting at 500 yards, both from field positions, with no benchrest allowed?
The present trend of ultra long range hunting/shooting
- Thread starter bearkilr
- Start date
You don't see the difference between 50 yards and even 500 yards? So if I offered you a shooting contest with $500 on the line and we had the same sized targets to shoot, say a 4" circle, would you be okay with me shooting at 50 yards, and you shooting at 500 yards, both from field positions, with no benchrest allowed?
The difference between the 50 yard shot and the 500 yard shot is that with the 50 yard shot chances are the typical hunter will be taking a snap-shot off the shoulder standing up unbraced, while the 500 yard shot the typical hunter would be taking a shot from a braced sitting or prone position, taking plenty of time eyeball things. This difference can make the same 4" circle just as easy to hit from either distance.
Total B.S. You can have just as much time to make the 50 yard shot, as the 500 yard shot.Archers are presented with many shots at 50 yards or even less, and in many cases they aren't being rushed to shoot. Just because you are carrying a firearm, doesn't mean that you have less time to shoot than the archer. As for the 500 yard shot, the majority of hunters could not hit a 4" circle at 500 yards no matter how much time they have, or what type of rest they have,let alone a field rest
A 4" group at 500 yards is sub MOA...In my experience the average hunting rifle (from a rest) will consistantly shoot 1.5 MOA with most over the counter ammo, so at 500 yards that is roughly 7.5 inches in calm air...still equals dead game with a margin for error. I've shot deer from a tree stand with archery equipment having all the time in the world to make the shot, so a close shot doesn't mean a rushed shot but also I havent seen many people that can consistantly hit a 4" circle off hand at 100 yards. It boils down to your comfort level in deciding if the shot should or should not be taken.
You are assuming that because the average hunter can average 1-1/2 moa off of a benchrest at 100 yards, that he can still average 1-1/2moa at 500 yards from a field position. The fact is, that as the distance increases, factors such as wind drift become more and more critical, so that hunter that averages 1-1/2 moa at 100 yards, may only average 2moa or 2-1/2moa at 500 yards. And in situations where the terrain is open enough to allow 500 yard shots, there is usually some wind present. As well, people rarely shoot as accurately from field positions as they do from a benchrest. Yet many hunters could quite easily hit a 4" target at 50 yards from a field position, be it from a knee, prone, sitting, bracing against a tree, shooting off of a pack, etc..
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
So you're assuming that a hunter firing a five shot 1" group at 100 yards would have no trouble shooting a 5" group at 500 yards and a 10" group at 1000 yards, in calm conditions? Good one!
stubblejumper; I will take your challenge but let's make it fair, you shoot a 4" circle at 50 mtrs offhand for 10 rounds and I will shoot a 10" pie plate at 500 mtrs from any position I can improvise with what I may have on my back sheep hunting for 10 rounds and we will see who hits the mark more times for $500. I accept your challenge!!! All I have to say is you best bring $500 bucks with you, 'cause you will lose!!!! If the ratiio were true you should be shooting at a 1" circle at 50 mtrs but I will give you a 4-1 advantage and you will still lose. I have shot from over a pack a 6.5" 5 shot group at 500 mtrs with my 300 Wby, I seruiously doubt you could shoot a 6.5" group with any firearm off hand at 50 mtrs. I have practiced extensively with my double 470 at 50 mtrs and the best 10 shot I can do so far is about 8". You may be a superior shot to me so I invite the competition, I'm getting old and my eyes aren't what they used to be but I'll still stand you this shoot for $500 bucks.
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My challenge was not directed towards you, rather it was directed towards the person who was posting about missing at 50 yards. But if you wish to accept my challenge, you accept is as I presented it, which is that you shoot at 500 yards, and I shoot at 50 yards. Each of us can use any field position available, as in any position that you might shoot from in the field, including kneeling, prone, sitting, shooting off of your pack, or even a bipod, but no shooting off of benches or any type of rest not commonly used in the field. If you are up to my challenge as presented, I have $500 to put up.
About the "fair" part, it was never meant to be fair. The entire purpose of my challenge was to demonstrate the huge difference in the odds of making 50 yard shots on game, compared to the odds of making those same shots at 500 yards. No matter how good the shooter is, as the distance increases, the odds of making the shot drop off.
Hmmmmm, don't see any thing in my post that suggests that!!!! Simply saying that the 10" kill zone for a deer size animal isn't that hard to hit with the right equipment and a good solid rest (in the field or from a bench) at 500 yards in calm air. I believe the assumption is on your part... 2 MOA at 500 yards equal 10 inches...equals dead deer sized animal. Your condecending comment "good one" doesn't lend much credibility your argument!
So stubblejumper; I guess you're turning an old guy down, you shooting offhand at 50 mtrs for a 4" bull and this old cowboy shooting over my pack at a 10" pie plate at 500 mtrs. 10 rounds for 500 bucks? Maybe your comments were not designed to be fair but I'm offering you a challenge that is more than fair. Interested?
Apparently you still don't get it. I made the challenge in it's original form to make a point, the point being that the odds were heavily in my favor,due to the great difference in the ranges that we would be shooting.But since I made that challenge, I will obviously stand by it, as I originally posted it. So either you can accept my challenge as I originally posted it, or you can back down, your choice.
Can you out shoot me at fifty yards,probably can, can a experienced long distance shooter out shoot your average Joe most likely. This is more of a I never wound anything and the way I do things is the right way thread.If the object of hunting is to kill something who cares what yardage it is at!
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Actually, it's exactly what you suggested;
And how did we get down to 500 yards? The author was talking about extreme range, 900 yards and up.
The article isn't really meant to deal with the ethics of long range hunting, but rather the subsequent removal of what most would classify as the whole hunting experience.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
I know, my post wasn't directed at you.
Quite a few hunters can obtain a 1/2" group at 100 yards with the proper rifle and loads. Very few could do a 2.5" at 500 yards nevermind a 5" group at 1000 yds. My point, as yours, is that you can't just extrapolate extreme range groups from ones fired at close range.
I believe I said 7.5 inches at 500 yards with a margin for error... the error being the kill zone in a deer size animal is 10 inches....the 500 yards came from another poster claiming to be more accurate off hand at 50 than someone from a rest at 500.
anyways enough said... you hunt your way and enjoy the experience and I'll hunt my way and enjoy the experience.... who's to say who actually gets more frill and pleasure.
Why knock an alternate hunting strategy....Guys with an elitist attitude seem to believe their opinion is the only one that matters.
cheers and happy hunting!
