Pretty certain the old reliable Rem 870 has seen combat use somewhere.
Trap and skeet shooters seem to make do with double barrels and they are shooting fast moving targets half the size of most drones.
The Shotgun In Modern Combat - Drone Defense
- Thread starter joe6167
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That's because it is not a life and death game and the rules limit the number of shots allowed.
Mark
FPV drones almost always attack one at a time. Like in competition, you can't miss fast enough or often enough to win. Accuracy beats speed and volume of fire every time.
Judging by the videos coming out of Ukraine I'd actually have no problem choosing a good trap gun over a crappy pump gun with a 10 rd capacity. Trap guns with auto ejectors can be reloaded fairly quickly and they are literally designed and optimized to beat small, fast flying targets.
Currently my pump gun has a 20" barrel with rifle sights and I find them difficult to line up quickly. They'd be totally useless against a moving target meaning the speed of the pump and the 8 rd mag capacity are useless. Give me a good front bead any time.
FPV drones almost always attack one at a time. Like in competition, you can't miss fast enough or often enough to win. Accuracy beats speed and volume of fire every time.
Judging by the videos coming out of Ukraine I'd actually have no problem choosing a good trap gun over a crappy pump gun with a 10 rd capacity. Trap guns with auto ejectors can be reloaded fairly quickly and they are literally designed and optimized to beat small, fast flying targets.
Currently my pump gun has a 20" barrel with rifle sights and I find them difficult to line up quickly. They'd be totally useless against a moving target meaning the speed of the pump and the 8 rd mag capacity are useless. Give me a good front bead any time.
What about a good pump instead of a crappy one vs a good trap gun? Kinda implies it...Yeah rifle sights are definitely a hinderance but it would be interesting, for the sake of fun, to see if they are truly "totally useless"
Although I agree, accuracy beats speed (as long as you get the shots needed off before the drone hits you) and volume of fire (til you need one more round) every time. When it doesn't you're dead or missing your legs.
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Currently UAF and other agencies in Ukraine are getting Hatsan BTS12. From a surface feedback I'm getting from my connections in Ukraine - overall operators consider them as good, taking into account a very specialized use for those of course. There are known weak spots and drawbacks and a ways to deal with them (but that is true for any firearm). There is "a must" break-in with a 100 of hot load shells. There's a requirement to understand variety of ammunition for shotgun and what should be used. However overall they fit the role quite good - compact profile with a long barrel, high capacity detachable magazine, semi-auto.
The very important thing to consider whenever one judge about Turkish guns - total anarchy with brands and models. There are some better brands and there are importers who could buy from other factories and slam better brand name on a copy gun. Same brand-model imported over the course of year could be made at different factories and even could have different internals. So when popular YT channels try to convince all (or specific) Turkish guns are the same, take it with a bag of salt. I guess if you establish a working relations with specific manufacturer - you can get a decent stuff. Improrters for USA and Canada might have slightly different priorities.
Here's a long 1h video from the most popular Ukrainian Hunting and Firearm business IBIS where Ukrainian Champion of pump-action sport shooting category exlains and show how the bullpup semi is better against drones. You'll have to enable auto-translation from Ukrainian.
It's called "Which gun and ammo are the best against drones"
The very important thing to consider whenever one judge about Turkish guns - total anarchy with brands and models. There are some better brands and there are importers who could buy from other factories and slam better brand name on a copy gun. Same brand-model imported over the course of year could be made at different factories and even could have different internals. So when popular YT channels try to convince all (or specific) Turkish guns are the same, take it with a bag of salt. I guess if you establish a working relations with specific manufacturer - you can get a decent stuff. Improrters for USA and Canada might have slightly different priorities.
Here's a long 1h video from the most popular Ukrainian Hunting and Firearm business IBIS where Ukrainian Champion of pump-action sport shooting category exlains and show how the bullpup semi is better against drones. You'll have to enable auto-translation from Ukrainian.
It's called "Which gun and ammo are the best against drones"
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I would agree with that, but has there ever been a combat situation where having more rounds on tap was worse than fewer? You can shoot just as well with a large mag capacity as a double and you have more ammo on tap if you need it.
Mark
Farmer from Kherson region of Ukraine:
"I take my "ten-shot". Otherwise, you can miss. Often, you only manage to hit with the fourth or even sixth shot. If the katsaps realize that the drone losses in the area of my field are too high, they will stop flying there."
Testing has shown that even larger drones can be easily brought down with #1 and #2 shot. Basically the same stuff hunters would use on geese. Buckshot is not needed and wouldn't be a good choice due to the small number of pellets. I used #4 shot on pigeons because it turns out they are tough as hell. I've seen pigeons soak up 2 and 3 hits from #8 shot and fly away.
Drones are 100% comprised of delicate electronic components and lightweight plastic. They are very easy to damage to the point where they fall out of the sky. Drones don't glide.
Nobody is using racing drones to carry explosives. The problem being that explosives and the stuff to set them off all add weight and bulk, which slows down drones. You can have speed and maneuverability or you can have an effective explosive payload ... you can't have both.
I honestly hate that the internet allows us to see modern warfare in all it's grisly detail. Seeing a man's final grimace of fear up close from the grainy feed of the device about to turn his head into chunks and red mist is not what my 10 year old self had in mind when playing with his Air Hogs and wondering about the future.
To keep things on topic, I've been reading about the Malayan Emergency and how the Auto-5 was actually one of the most effective small arms in the conflict. Apparently the British patrols loved the thing and in their AARs there was a clear correlation between dead insurgents and number of semi shotguns carried by a patrol.
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EMP cannon > Shotgun = all day, every day swarm defense...if too poor with no corrupt .MIL connections to source then that's Darwinism friends. The world needs fewer poors (I'm a poor) :/
I've seen multiple reports, including 2 really lengthy and detailed ones, that stated that not just buckshot but magnum buckshot was the load of choice, based on birdshot not having enough effective range to destroy a drone before it gets danger close.
I've also seen footage from 2 years ago where armored drones were being tested that could wind stand multiple blasts of birdshot from close range, as in just a couple of yards. Each hit merely pushing the drone back.
So it appears possible to armor a drone to that level at least without incurring a serious performance penalty.
#6 shot is pretty small. I had to go to #4 shot to bring down pigeons.
Drones are quite delicate. Their motors and other electronics do not react well to having holes punched in them. Serious damage to a single prop blade would likely bring a drone down.
