The Templar Thread, 5.56 by Crusader Arms / Spectre LTD

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Ustauk

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Crusader Arms/ Spectre LTD will be introducing the Templar 5.56 rifle at TACCOM this weekend. More details to come, but here are some pictures and preliminary info to discuss:

  • Non-Restricted
  • 5.56 Monolithic upper (with a more conventional design the Sentinel's)
  • Available in either ACR style folding stock or with buffer tube stock
  • Lower now uses standard AR parts (presumably safety cylinder and trigger pins, like WK180 Gen2) and has a AR-15-style magazine well angle
  • Quick Release Bolt Lever
  • Thicker, more robust mid-length piston (presumably from the Sentinel, so hopefully less likely to break then thinner and more forcefully actioned carbine length on WK Gen 1 and 2 and MCR)
  • Lighter overall then Sentinel

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The pricing and more details need to be announced, but this could be a compelling alternative to the WK Gen 2, especially given that piston self-destruct within a thousand rounds has still been reported, and the Templar shares many of the AR-15 style enhancements brought to Gen 2. Hopefully it also provides Sterling R18 MK2 reliability at a better price point. Time will tell. Congratulations to Crusader Arms / Spectre LTD for bringing yet another 5.56 rifle the market!

PS: A suggestion for the next one, to lighten things up; talk to the guys at Jard or CMMG to help with, or develop in house a variant that can impinge the 180 recoil recovery system from a gas tube using a Stoner style pseudo-DI piston bolt; you could use a Faxon Gunner profile barrel and have a less front heavy rifle, with the trade-off of the same cleanup from internally as an AR-15, as opposed having to clean the piston system. You can then use a standard AR-15 adjustable gas block, to allow gassing up and down for good and bad ammo and conditions.
 
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More info from the product listing, https://www.crusaderarms.ca/product/Templar/14?cp=true&sa=true&sbp=false&q=false

Crusader said:
TEMPLAR (ACR Stock, MilSpec Trigger)
CAD$1,999.00
Description

NOW IN STOCK

THE TEMPLAR - Non Restricted 5.56 Rifle

This 5.56 rifle operates with 3/8 Piston Mid/Rifle length Gas system for ultimate reliability and durability while allowing the gun to run clean with limited amount of carbon in the action. No buffer tube required to function the rifle therefore we have fitted this rifle with an ACR style folding stock. The Charging handle is in a forward position non- reciprocating and Ambidextrous for preference.

The TEMPLAR has a redesigned streamlined lower that is now able to accept AR15 Trigger Pins and Safety and continues to support the same AR15 grips Stocks and Trigger packs.

1913 Milspec rail the full length of the Monolithic upper. The Templar also has a Bolt catch and release lever on the left side of the rifle and also comes with 1- 5.56 magazine and MilSpec Trigger installed.

*The TEMPLAR comes in 2 models: Standard AR15 buffer tube/stock and the much anticipated ACR Style FOLDING Stock. Each model comes in 2 trims: Milspec Trigger or with the ever so popular adjustable Trigger Tech Trigger. MAKE SURE TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT ONE FOR YOU!


Specifications:

Caliber: 5.56 NATO/ .223 Rem.
Capacity: 5
Magazine Type: AR-15
Action: Semi-Automatic
Gas System: Mid-Length
Gas Block Diameter: 0.750"
Barrel: 18.7" (Threaded 1/2"-28)
Barrel Twist: 1:8
Receiver Material: 6061 Aluminum
Handguard Material: 6061 Aluminum
Handguard Accessories: M-LOK, Picatinny
Trigger Weight: 5.5 - 7.5 lbs.
Overall Length: 38"
Weight: 8.2 lbs.
Part #: TEMP-5.56-ACR-LIB-BLK
Comes With:

1x Magazine
This is a Non-Restricted Firearm.
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A few comments, suggestions and questions:

- Please don't use the same charging handle as the Sentinel. It's not very comfortable and needs to be redesigned.
- Nice to see an improvement around the mag release. The Sentinel setup is fine but this is better.
- The barrel profile needs to be turned down or fluted. It's a really beefy barrel on both the Sentinel and the Templar.
- I support providing both buffer tube and ACR stock options.
- Safety looks like an improvement.
- Bolt release looks the same and should be made larger with more texture.
- AR magwell is definitely super nice to have.
- What's the parts interchangeability between Sentinel and Templar?
 
So how does one access the Mid-Length Gas System for maintenance (and presumably adjustment?) with a monolithic Upper Receiver? Presumably those 2 screws per side allow removal of the Handguard? If so, the design is no more "monolithic" than any other AR-180 design out there. The Handguard is simply more blended with the contours of the Upper Receiver. Some other observations:

- Based on the comments of others, the Charging Handle is uncomfortable and requires a redesign.

- The Left Side Bolt Release looks awkward.

- The Steel reinforcing Plate on the Left side of the rifle (a-la WS-MCR) is fugly and should be finished to match the surrounding aluminum.

- The current Weight is acceptable for an AR180-derived design at 8.2 lbs "bare".

- The Price-Point is very reasonable, as compared to the main competition.

The Templar appears to be a blend of existing design-cues from the other AR180-derived designs currently on the Canadian market, with a bit of B+T APC aesthetic thrown into the Handguard design for good measure. Time will tell if this particular combination of attributes and pricing will be sufficiently accurate and reliable to dominate the Canadian AR-180 market. I for one, will not be an early adopter of this particular effort, but I applaud Crusader Arms for bringing another AR180 iteration to market at a mid-range price-point. That said, someone else can take the lead as the Beta-Tester on this one....
 
So it seems safe to assume that Wolverine has sold or licenced out the WS-MCR lower and upper design to spectre Ltd/Crusader Arms.

I don't know if anyone else noticed a drop in the number of WS-MCRs for sale over the last year and then the Crusader 9 was created with a practically identical lower.

Then the "Sentinal" was created and now the Templar. The Templar even has the filled in charging slot of the MCR despite not having a charging handle on either side, so I assume this is a re-purposed MCR design or actual MCR upper.

Or have I got this all wrong?
 
REALLY hoping this thing is decent quality. Having a lot of trouble justifying the cost of an R18. Not that it's not worth the premium, just spent a ton of $ on handguns recently. Bet I'm not the only one wrestling with this.
 
Bratwurst said:
So it seems safe to assume that Wolverine has sold or licenced out the WS-MCR lower and upper design to spectre Ltd/Crusader Arms.

I don't know if anyone else noticed a drop in the number of WS-MCRs for sale over the last year and then the Crusader 9 was created with a practically identical lower.

Then the "Sentinal" was created and now the Templar. The Templar even has the filled in charging slot of the MCR despite not having a charging handle on either side, so I assume this is a re-purposed MCR design or actual MCR upper.

Or have I got this all wrong?
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Do we still expect more MCR s to be produced or have they now been replaced by these Crusader offerings?
 
Bratwurst said:
So it seems safe to assume that Wolverine has sold or licenced out the WS-MCR lower and upper design to spectre Ltd/Crusader Arms.

I don't know if anyone else noticed a drop in the number of WS-MCRs for sale over the last year and then the Crusader 9 was created with a practically identical lower.

Then the "Sentinal" was created and now the Templar. The Templar even has the filled in charging slot of the MCR despite not having a charging handle on either side, so I assume this is a re-purposed MCR design or actual MCR upper.

Or have I got this all wrong?
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In function, the Sentinel (and I presume Templar) upper is identical to an MCR although they aren't interchangeable as the Sentinel has a rear takedown pin in the lower and not in the upper, like the MCR. It would be pretty easy to mod a Sentinel upper to fit on a MCR lower though. Other differences are the beefed up piston and monolithic upper but the guts are the same, same bolt (but not bolt carrier) etc. Both the Sentinel and Templar have the pressed in plate blank plate (actually has guide rails on the inside for the cam pin) where the MCR has the plate that has the slot for the charging handle to ride in.
 
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OP, do you know if this system is compatible with standard AR barrels? I'm not familiar with the 180 system. I have a 20" chrome lined hammer forged barrel. I'd hate to go backwards and get a cheap barrel. But if I could swap it...
 
Bratwurst said:
The Templar even has the filled in charging slot of the MCR despite not having a charging handle on either side, so I assume this is a re-purposed MCR design or actual MCR upper.
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I suspect that the steel receiver sideplate is likely just there so that the little steel cam pin on the 180 BCG doesn't start to chew through the aluminum upper guide track like it does/did on the WK-series. The AR15 uses an aluminum guide track/ shelf against the steel cam pin, but it also has a much fatter cam pin surface which is less likely to bite into the upper.
 
DasJager said:
OP, do you know if this system is compatible with standard AR barrels? I'm not familiar with the 180 system. I have a 20" chrome lined hammer forged barrel. I'd hate to go backwards and get a cheap barrel. But if I could swap it...
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Does your barrel have a mid-length gas port? I would contact Crusader/ Spectre and give them your barrel specs to make suren the gas block will fit the diameter, as well. You may want to include this on a comment on one of their Instagram posts, as they reply their readily.
 
Ahhh right, you answered my question, mine is rifle length gas. Wasn't even thinking. Thanks for talking me through this one lol
 
nelsonm64 said:
it would nice if they made a lower compatible with the 180c gen1 upper. personally, i’d be very happy!
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Same, if the lower was compatible with other 180 uppers, I’d jump all over one.

However, buying another complete 180 variant isn’t appealing to me at all…at least not until someone makes one with a decent barrel and lightweight package (6.5lbs or less bare rifle would be great)
 
ColinD said:
Same, if the lower was compatible with other 180 uppers, I’d jump all over one.

However, buying another complete 180 variant isn’t appealing to me at all…at least not until someone makes one with a decent barrel and lightweight package (6.5lbs or less bare rifle would be great)
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If SBI can finish their DI BCG, they already have a nice lightweight upper and lower, which you could then pair with a pencil or gunner profile barrel, minimalist handguard, lightweight AR-15 gas block, and gas tube on the front end and 1913 skeleton stock on the back to make a nicely center balanced , light 180 Lynx rifle. Hopefully they can finish it soon!
 
ColinD said:
Same, if the lower was compatible with other 180 uppers, I’d jump all over one.

However, buying another complete 180 variant isn’t appealing to me at all…at least not until someone makes one with a decent barrel and lightweight package (6.5lbs or less bare rifle would be great)
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that’s where i’m at, can’t justify or afford another one. i have my 180 how i like it, except the magwell! drives me crazy… glad there’s finally a version with a AR style magwell.
 
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