Thoughts and impressions: CZ 600 LUX
- Thread starter dgradinaru
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∆∆∆ agreed
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So going back to the topic, I find myself to be very confused. On a one hand, I like steel receivers of Lux and Range. But they would need bases, while Ergo and Alpha are aluminum receivers, but with integrated pic rails. And when I think about little to no bedding I don't see a huge point in a steel receiver anyway. But yet Alpha is too basic of a stock and Ergo is too goofy of a stock. Lux appears to have a low comb, but irons are too short of a radius to matter, so scoping with a low comb is meh. I like range stock outline but it is too heavy. I would take 223 Lux or Alpha if there was a path to after market stocks, but 223 receiver on CZ 600 is min length and I don't expect anyone to make a stock for min length when you have Trail to be a majority of hype. I could take 223 Ergo, but it has no front m-lok or pic rail for bipod and they front sling swivel would not most likely secure a swivel bipod and I don't want to drill and butcher an ergo stock with no replacements and after market available. Lux 223 has a regular front swivel, but it has no bases, and it is min length, so Rem 700 SA rail won't fit and I need separate bases and I like that even less.
So all that together makes it all too confusing and undesirable proposition. Yet, the moment I'm sure that I don't want cz 600, it comes back to me because of double stack top loading magazine, I like bolt head, trigger is good. But recall made is very questionable and I kinda expect us to see CZ 605 very soon with actual quick barrels change and some other improvements.
Can't say really, just thinking aloud.
So all that together makes it all too confusing and undesirable proposition. Yet, the moment I'm sure that I don't want cz 600, it comes back to me because of double stack top loading magazine, I like bolt head, trigger is good. But recall made is very questionable and I kinda expect us to see CZ 605 very soon with actual quick barrels change and some other improvements.
Can't say really, just thinking aloud.
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- Steel Town
It appears the recall was over-hyped. However, I would like a second owner to chime in on the barrel bolts before I jump in. Like above, each model lacks. I would like an Alpha with iron sights. I actually like the look of the Alpha stock and as long as it's solid, good enough for me for field use. I also really like the CZ 557 synthetic stocks, and CZ generally make a good synthetic alternative. Ergo stocks are Ugo and I can't for the life of me see the $300-400 premium for one. As I want an increment weather rifle, a steel receiver makes zero sense, especially with this design.
I’d hold off on any aesthetic proclamations before handling an alpha; they are “ unique” looking for sure. The pictures don’t really do them justice
I can’t speak to what is “solid” but the stock is run of the mill tupperware. Comparable to a Tikka or rem 700, not as bad as a ruger or savage from what I felt. Determining solidity without actually using something is not a talent of mine though
A lack of factory irons is hardly an impediment. They usually suck anyways, throwing a very good pair on has never cost me more than a mid range scope
Despite my negative perceptions from handling one I still kind of want to buy one?
I can’t speak to what is “solid” but the stock is run of the mill tupperware. Comparable to a Tikka or rem 700, not as bad as a ruger or savage from what I felt. Determining solidity without actually using something is not a talent of mine though
A lack of factory irons is hardly an impediment. They usually suck anyways, throwing a very good pair on has never cost me more than a mid range scope
Despite my negative perceptions from handling one I still kind of want to buy one?
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- Steel Town
The sights on the 557 don't suck at all, and it appears they are unchanged on the 600 albeit with reduced sight radius. Otherwise, I kinda agree with you? 
I have been keen to check out the 600 since their announcement, finally got to do that this week. A bit meh…
Ergo: I was keen to order one in 6mm CM when they came out. They are light, which is a plus. The span from grip to trigger is really short. The stock ergo’s feel great to me. Not fan of the molded in sling swivels, but they might work just fine. Is it worth $1400 - $1500 ($500+ over the Alpha). Not sure about that…
Alpha : Again, I really liked the stock shape and ergonomics. Well done CZ for realizing that they need to make stocks for scope use. Ruger could learn this with rifles like the RAR. Combo height is good. Lighter than I expected. But… man, is stock that flimsy! Almost no effort to flex the forend onto the barrel. Honestly, I am not sure why it seems that only Tikka can make a lower cost plastic stock that is stiff. Sauer and Mauser also seem to be able to make a stiffer plastic stock. Even the RAR is stiffer than the Alpha stock. If I got one I would be removing a lot of material from the forend channel.
If the barrel availability, and the switching issue can be resolved I think I would be interested. Otherwise, I am not sure they are better value that a Howa or a Tikka. Triggers are supposed to be good, though…
I do also like the DBM that you load through the ejection port.
Ergo: I was keen to order one in 6mm CM when they came out. They are light, which is a plus. The span from grip to trigger is really short. The stock ergo’s feel great to me. Not fan of the molded in sling swivels, but they might work just fine. Is it worth $1400 - $1500 ($500+ over the Alpha). Not sure about that…
Alpha : Again, I really liked the stock shape and ergonomics. Well done CZ for realizing that they need to make stocks for scope use. Ruger could learn this with rifles like the RAR. Combo height is good. Lighter than I expected. But… man, is stock that flimsy! Almost no effort to flex the forend onto the barrel. Honestly, I am not sure why it seems that only Tikka can make a lower cost plastic stock that is stiff. Sauer and Mauser also seem to be able to make a stiffer plastic stock. Even the RAR is stiffer than the Alpha stock. If I got one I would be removing a lot of material from the forend channel.
If the barrel availability, and the switching issue can be resolved I think I would be interested. Otherwise, I am not sure they are better value that a Howa or a Tikka. Triggers are supposed to be good, though…
I do also like the DBM that you load through the ejection port.
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- Location
- Steel Town
I am surprised to hear that. My Two CZ 557 synthetic stocks are the most rigid of all my factory synthetic stocked rifles, and that includes my Tikka's and previous Rugers. I will test the flex on a 600 this week at my LGS. Did the Ergo have any flex?
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/cz-600-alpha.289748/
_ Jeezus Chri$t CZ! ... apparently the recoil lug or "nub" or whatever they want to call it is moulded polymer and part of the stock!
I won't even consider one of these rifles until I get the details on the bedding and how the stock and action interface.
_ Jeezus Chri$t CZ! ... apparently the recoil lug or "nub" or whatever they want to call it is moulded polymer and part of the stock!
I won't even consider one of these rifles until I get the details on the bedding and how the stock and action interface.
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So what? I mean really - perhaps the use of a Polymer "Recoil Lug" is actually superior to a Steel Recoil Lug. Do you know for a fact that it is not? Why not approach a new rifle with an open mind? Sure, it may be cheaper for CZ to go with a Polymer "Recoil Nub", but it may also be a better solution to a common firearms design issue. Again, how do you know that it is not at least as good as steel? You don't. So instead you are choosing to discount all of CZ's developmental testing in favour of your "beliefs" and "feels". That is a pretty close-minded approach, but each to their own.
I went with the Trail as apposed to the Lux, but I was looking for the things that the Trail specifically brings to the table. The Trail also has a Polymer "Recoil Nub" projecting up from the honeycombed polymer bedding area of the Stock. It shoots just fine, delivering .75 MOA 5-shot groups with 53 gr Hornady Superformance VMax ammo. That is plenty good enough for me, so I think that the Polymer "Recoil Nub" is just fine. YMMV....
Please post up some pictures of your stock and action next time you have the two apart, as I said I need to know more about the bedding system as it is huge part of a rifles overall accuracy equation. It may very well be fine now but will it wear as the round count climbs?
"CZ's developmental testing???" ...seriously?. These are the same guys who screwed the pooch and gave us the recall lol.
Teething problems are to be expected, but if you're calling me emotional then I'm calling you defensive and ball$ deep invested in these new 600's.
They bring some nice features to the table and look interesting, but it is still very early.
As you say "YMMV"
Here you go - the best photos that I can provide you with showing the "Bedding" system for the CZ 600 Trail. Bear in mind that this is a "Mini-Action", designed for .223/5.56mm and 7.62x39mm intermediate cartridges, so "Recoil" is moderate at worst and a polymer "Recoil Lug" may not be required to do much heavy lifting in terms of recoil mitigation. Still, it is indicatve of what you may receive in the iheavier calibre models of CZ 600 as well. The "Mini-Action" only has one row of Lugs on the Bolt (vice 2 rows on the heavier calibres), two Barrel Retention Bolts (vice three Bolts on the heavier calibres), and so on.
You can identify the Polymer Recoil Lug by the partial Feed Ramp that it contains, leading to the Steel Chamber of the Barrel.
The corresponding slot in the steel Receiver for the polymer Recoil Lug/Feed Ramp is identifiable as the deepest slot on the underside of the Receiver billet (the slot in the Trunnion closest to the "5 Nm" marking)
The wear properties of Polymer verrsus Steel over time are a mystery to me, so I cannot say if one is superior to the other under recoil, over the fullness of time. Let's just say for the sake of argument that they are equal. I see no benefit to having the slot in the Stock and the Recoil Lug as part of the Receiver, versus the opposite arrangement as found on the CZ 600 Trail with the Stock's polymer Lug fitting into a corresonding slot in the aluminum underside of the billet Receiver. Both approaches ought to be equally effective.
I do no doubt that CZ Europe did conduct extensive reliability, durabiility and accuracy testing of the CZ 600 line before bringing the new product to market. To not do so would be quite a departure from the norm! The "Recall" was all about the possibility that a non-mechanically-inclined person could reassemble the Quick-Change Barrel incorrectly, resulting in a Firing Out Of Battery condition with the Barrel not fully seated and the Bolt therefore not fully locked into the Barrel Extension. Anyone with an iota of common sense and firearms familiarity would know that the Barrel is not fully seated in the Receiver and would/could correct the situation long before it became a problem. However, based on "that guy", SIG (maybe just SIG USA?) elected to do a recall and make the Barrel Retention Bolts permanently instralled, thus negating the remote potential for a switch-Barrel installation error. It is interesting to note that aside from IRG's CZ USA offering, all CZ Rifles distributed in Canada are manufactured by CZ Europe. My CZ 600 Trail is European, and aside from a dab of red enamel on the head of each Barrel Retention Bolt, there is nothing whatsoever "permanent" about the Barrel installation. Indeed, it is still very much "ready and able" to be disassembled and Barrel-swapped for a different calibre such as .300 Blackout, or (with a Bolt-Head swap), 7.62x39mm fed fromm "STANAG"-style 7.62x39mm magazines. 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, 6mm ARC, the possibiities and capabilities are many and varied!
Fair enough with the tit-for-tat. I am however, no more emotionally and financially invested in the CZ 600 series than I am in the CZ Bren 2 (spoiler alert - I am a fan), the SAI R18 Mk 2 (also a fan), the Crusader Templar (heavy, but I like it), the Keltec RDB (not bad for a civilian design), or the SIG CROSS (awesome in every regard). Those are my new long-gun additions in the past year that anyone with an RPAL can own. As you can see, I tend to end up liking the firearms that I purchase, mostly because I do my homework before openning my wallet. Sometimes, in the absence of information on a new model I take a bit of a hopeful shot in th dark, but even then my guesses tend to be educated. So, naturally the firearms that I spend my money on tend to work out for their intended purpose(s). Anyhow, that is how I approach things, and judging by your efforts to dig into the bedding system for the new CZ model line, you do the same. No need for insults then - we both do our homework before committing our $$. I'm just ahead of you on this one, and am banking on my belief that CZ's engineers have done their homework in matching the Bedding of the CZ 600 Trail to its intended "rough and tumble" usage. I am not adverse to trying new approaches to old problems, hence my tentative trust in a Polymer Recoil Lug and an aluminum bedding slot. We shall see over the fullness of time, but I am not antiipating any disappointment with the Trail's bedding system, the limitations of which are already anticipated in the factory accuracy warranty of 2 MOA. I blew that benchmark out of the water on my very first outing with repeated .75 MOA, 5-round, no flier groups of Hornady 53 Gr VMax at 100m. So much for the bedding being an issue on the 600 Trail...
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Thanks very much for the detailed pictures Bartok, these will absolutely be the best on the web so far and are invaluable.
Apologies if I came across as prickly...I truly am intrigued by the new 600's and I do wish them to succeed and if sales are good maybe the aftermarket stock manufacturers can come up with something that instills more confidence as to solid stock and action mating.
Apologies if I came across as prickly...I truly am intrigued by the new 600's and I do wish them to succeed and if sales are good maybe the aftermarket stock manufacturers can come up with something that instills more confidence as to solid stock and action mating.
