Thoughts on a Norinco CQA as a first 223 rifle purchase

I have 2 norcs and a pistol drive POF.

My first rifle was a norc, still running today. I might have 2000 rounds down the barrel of each, maybe 3,000. All that's ever gone wrong with either of them was one bolt was a bit finicky, so I ordered an upgraded BCG and all was good. I replaced the rings in the second one, and upgraded the extractor spring. Any lower parts kit works in them as far as my experience is, I've added and swapped a few things over the years, never met a part that didn't fit (cannot say same for norc 1911's but that's another story). I paid ~$500CAN for my first one, and overall I have no regrets. It's hard to get 10,000 rounds down the pipe of the AR in Ontario, lots of ranges have issues with ARs, the old timers get cranky at "speed firing", the magazines only hold 5(!) rounds, cost of ammo, etc etc. I have put the lower on borrowed uppers and they all ran/fit well. As a plinker, the norc is just fine.

The POF piston drive gun is 4x the price. I mean, WOW, it is insanely nice, and it IS night and day to the norc. I mean it runs perfectly, has an incredible trigger, it's clean (not a fan of direct impingement after getting one of these) and I would rely on it to save my life. It's a totally different animal. If I could go back in time would I have started with the "good" rifle? Likely not. I needed a starter to let me appreciate why I wanted a "better" gun. Lots of people get an AR and never take them out, they get something non restricted instead (also a viable option). Lastly you could get one of the Smith & wesson AR's, I think they were a really really good price recently at some retailers (?).

They are 2 totally different beasts. I say get what you want to get. These guys aren't wrong when they say the colts (or whatever) are built better, they are. If you get into the AR platform, you will want to upgrade. IF you don't, then it will sit in the safe, or you can sell it on the EE.
 
My Norc CQ-A has worked well for me. I bought it at a time there weren't a lot of cheap alternatives.
I can't speak for anyone else's mileage.
I've got well over 5000 through my Norc. Documented. Believe me or don't. I don't care. You're entitled to your opinion as is everyone else.
Have a great day :)
 
ThrowBack said:
My Norc CQ-A has worked well for me. I bought it at a time there weren't a lot of cheap alternatives.
I can't speak for anyone else's mileage.
I've got well over 5000 through my Norc. Documented. Believe me or don't. I don't care. You're entitled to your opinion as is everyone else.
Have a great day :)
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Okay what rate of fire are using generally speaking ? 5rd mags ? 10 rds mags. ?? How many rounds fired usually at a time per Range cession and amount of time span also. ? These things count. I understand the idea of Norcs for the hobby first time buyer. My argument is skip the BS and start of right from the Get go! The devil is in the details

223 commercial ammo

55gr
62gr
69gr
77gr

Any actual true 556 in that Gr Range. These things matter.

The problem is members here are conflating things in regards to performance and durability with brands that the Norc shouldn’t be. Its highly deceptive wither that be deliberate or not.

Devils in the details.
 
I think you are missing the point. The people that need the best of the best already have the right equipment issued to them. I am taking my elcheapo NEA shorty to the base range tonight to just have fun. I will be joined by CSOR and base rapid response team members who will be out of uniform and will be bringing out their norincos, Smith's and NEAs for fun at 25 meters using cheap surplus ammo.
When at 'WORK' these guys use the best equipment the tax payers can afford. In their off time it's just for fun. A norinco fits that requirement perfectly!
 
How are other guns like say Colt Expanse, PSA, Colt LE6920 being standard the best ?? No where was I recommending buying the best $3000 + AR to start. Not too say that is not a good idea. For example a 14.5 SR15 can do everything you want including 3 gun if you are into that commercial sports shooting competition part of the gun hobby .
 
Gatehouse said:
5000 rounds is nonsense. Did qthat or more first summer I had thst 15 000 + round count gun.
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Sure you did. Meanwhile anyone I know that got above 10,000 rds on there Norc, the results were the same, the whole thing was practically pooched. Barrel, bolt,bolt carrier, stripped upper reciever, hell even the lower was worn out.
 
I'm amazed to see the proverbial peeing on the fence that happens here by some.
The guy wanted a reasonable option at a reasonable price and some experienced input - not the this back and forth I'm sure.
Sure the S&W might only be a couple hundred more - maybe he doesn't have it or refuses to justify it, that's on him and his wallet.
I see the comments sometimes where really it comes across and junior high snobbery - who cares what each person purchases and for what reasons. At the end of the day we all want to go to the range or back country to enjoy an exhilarating sport and don't expect the guy at the next bench to be looking down, snickering or whatever just cause he's not rocking the best of the best.

For me as I was/ is still very new to this world I run a Cz 75 sp-01 shadow and an Nea 10.5 as that's what was made available to me from some very experienced guys and let me tell ya that NEA has had several thousand rounds through just since I've owned it with no issues.

Would I see a difference to the uber ones? maybe, maybe not - would I like an NR version - sure but I refuse to pay the NR tax just because it's NR.

Long story short - everyone will have their opinions and experiences - if your that set on this guy getting S&W - then pony up the couple hundred for him?
If not - maybe there's someone close to where he is who has some options and let him fire a bunch of rounds so he can make a better informed decision.
 
Stoner99 said:
Okay what rate of fire are using generally speaking ? 5rd mags ? 10 rds mags. ?? How many rounds fired usually at a time per Range cession and amount of time span also. ? These things count. I understand the idea of Norcs for the hobby first time buyer. My argument is skip the BS and start of right from the Get go! The devil is in the details

223 commercial ammo

55gr
62gr
69gr
77gr

Any actual true 556 in that Gr Range. These things matter.

The problem is members here are conflating things in regards to performance and durability with brands that the Norc shouldn’t be. Its highly deceptive wither that be deliberate or not.

Devils in the details.
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Hell if I know most of those details. Hell if I care. 55 grain bulk ammo of various brands (including Norinco), 5 round and LAR mags, casual shooting including fast shooting, double taps, and slow bench grouping.
I bought it because compared to other offerings at the time, the price was right. I have a $100 Bushnell red dot on it, too. That also has not disappointed me.
For what I bought it for, it has not let me down. Would it be my first choice fast roping into a firefight in Mogadishu? Or landing on a beachhead in Grenada? Probably not. For value shooting at the range it has served the purpose for the price I paid. I am a civilian shooter and don't pretend to be anything else.
 
GeorgeJure said:
Hello

I am looking for advice reg. the Norinco CQA as a first 223 rifle. With some general shooting and some basic target shooting. I have NEVER had one or fired one. I see them here in the EE section for sale and their prices can be quite tempting.
What are the worry, stay away issues or what do you have to do to it to be a fun reliable rifle? Also are magazines easy to find for it?

Thanks for your replies.
George
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Hi GeorgeJure,

I did a quick google search and found a Canadian retailer selling the CQa from $799.00 all the way up to $1550.00 depending on what bundled package was selected...

Just my two cents, but if it were me, I'd have a look at what else might be available in that price range, or whatever your price range is at the moment for that matter. I'm not disparaging the CQa or anyone who has them at all. I'm sure they've worked very well for many... However, like many have already mentioned, times have changed (as have prices), and there are many other choices out there that might be more of an interest to you...

The only personal experience I've had with the Norc CQa was that of a friends rifle. I have to say, although it did work; it was pretty rough in the fit and finish dept. If this hobby grows for you, you might end up having more interest in the AR-15's design and it's material specifications. Although there are plenty of sport shooters that don't particularly care, some like to get into the nitty gritty details as to how their rifle was made and with what materials. Some have a deep appreciation for that stuff (as I do); others don't... That being said there are options within a new CQa's price range that will certainly get you a lot closer in the fit an finish dept. And some of those options are more likely to be closer to a standard of material specs that a lot of people like to see. Would those things get you a better rifle for a similar price, I'd suspect most likely they would...

Some considerations might be; as many have already mention the S&W M&P Sport II at the low end, they're a lot cheaper than the Norc at the moment at $649ish. At the upper end, perhaps a Colt LE 6920, Prophet River has them for $1,429.00 at the moment. I'd take that LE6920 over the CQa bundle I found any day of the week. Again just my 2 cents. Similarly with regard to the used market. whatever your price range might be, I'd bet you'd find an interesting used rifle in there that'll have the edge on the CQa in overall quality.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy the hobby.
 
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Stoner99 said:
Okay what rate of fire are using generally speaking ? 5rd mags ? 10 rds mags. ?? How many rounds fired usually at a time per Range cession and amount of time span also. ? These things count. I understand the idea of Norcs for the hobby first time buyer. My argument is skip the BS and start of right from the Get go! The devil is in the details

223 commercial ammo

55gr
62gr
69gr
77gr

Any actual true 556 in that Gr Range. These things matter.

The problem is members here are conflating things in regards to performance and durability with brands that the Norc shouldn’t be. Its highly deceptive wither that be deliberate or not.

Devils in the details.
Click to expand...

I tell my rounds count.30 rounders USGI and 100 rounds beta mags usually used. Rate of fire around 750 to 800 rpm. Ammo was Lake City M855 NATO greentip. cheers
 
MuskokaJoe said:
Hi GeorgeJure,

I did a quick google search and found a Canadian retailer selling the CQa from $799.00 all the way up to $1550.00 depending on what bundled package was selected...

Just my two cents, but if it were me, I'd have a look at what else might be available in that price range, or whatever your price range is at the moment for that matter. I'm not disparaging the CQa or anyone who has them at all. I'm sure they've worked very well for many... However, like many have already mentioned, times have changed (as have prices), and there are many other choices out there that might be more of an interest to you...

The only personal experience I've had with the Norc CQa was that of a friends rifle. I have to say, although it did work; it was pretty rough in the fit and finish dept. If this hobby grows for you, you might end up having more interest in the AR-15's design and it's material specifications. Although there are plenty of sport shooters that don't particularly care, some like to get into the nitty gritty details as to how their rifle was made and with what materials. Some have a deep appreciation for that stuff (as I do); others don't... That being said there are options within a new CQa's price range that will certainly get you a lot closer in the fit an finish dept. And some of those options are more likely to be closer to a standard of material specs that a lot of people like to see. Would those things get you a better rifle for a similar price, I'd suspect most likely they would...

Some considerations might be; as many have already mention the S&W M&P Sport II at the low end, they're a lot cheaper than the Norc at the moment at $649ish. At the upper end, perhaps a Colt LE 6920, Prophet River has them for $1,429.00 at the moment. I'd take that LE6920 over the CQa bundle I found any day of the week. Again just my 2 cents. Similarly with regard to the used market. whatever your price range might be, I'd bet you'd find an interesting used rifle in there that'll have the edge on the CQa in overall quality.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy the hobby.
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I would not advise the op to buy a new NORC, buy used for under $500 like a host of people have already recommended. Try it out for a while, even if you drop it down to $400 or less to re-sell. How much capital expense have you incurred? Try buying a new AR and shoot then re-sell it in the current climate, crunch the numbers and see how much tax and depreciation you will have to eat.
 
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norlandgeese said:
I would not advise the op to buy a new NORC, buy used for under $500 like a host of people have already recommended. Try it out for a while, even if you drop it down to $400 or less to re-sell. How much capital expense have you incurred? Try buying a new AR and shoot then re-sell it in the current climate, crunch the numbers and see how much tax and depreciation you will have to eat.
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I didn’t advise him to buy a new Norc whatsoever. I made some comparisons using some “new” and current prices. I also mentioned the used market. And I didn't recommend he buy one there either... Please have another read...
 
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Stoner99 said:
Sure you did. Meanwhile anyone I know that got above 10,000 rds on there Norc, the results were the same, the whole thing was practically pooched. Barrel, bolt,bolt carrier, stripped upper reciever, hell even the lower was worn out.
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I had to replace some small parts at one point. Extractor, firing pin. After 15000 rounds it still works but it’s sure got wear on it. I posted pics of the groups on another thread. I’m just telling my personal experiences, if you don’t like it, that’s fine with me.

But as I said several times before, there are US made rifles now in the Norinco price category, so not much incentive to buy a Norinco unless you get a smoking deal on one.
 
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Basic PSA is US$475 at Irunguns. A second hand Norc might be a viable option, but the difference is not that great. Either way, if you buy it and don't like it, the adventure will cost you $100-200 tops.

I wouldn't sink big $$$ into big name brand for the first AR.
 
Stoner99 said:
Sure you did. Meanwhile anyone I know that got above 10,000 rds on there Norc, the results were the same, the whole thing was practically pooched. Barrel, bolt,bolt carrier, stripped upper reciever, hell even the lower was worn out.
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Now who’s being deceptive? The bolt carrier, upper and lower were worn out? BS
 
Friend of mine picked up a mint, like new, perfect Armalite on the EE for less than $900.00 shipped! Watch the EE and buy yourself a gun that is a keeper. Once most people have an AR, they keep it as it is a great gun to use and a versatile platform to build on and modify.
 
As many have said already, if you can get a NORC cheap, then get it. Bullet prooof. I bought mine (first AR) when US made ARs were $300-$500 more. Never had an issue with it. I recently sold it and went with a S&W Sporter II because the price was great and so were the reviews. No reason to buy a Norc now when the price is about the same as a US made one. You will learn quite quickly that opinions on ARs are like arse holes.... :)
 
desporterizer said:
I would like to know what percentage of the value priced US "made" rifle are actually made in the US with US sourced metal.
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lol In this day and age, probably not many. And even if they are, they are definitely lowest level quality of materials available.
Hence why buying a Used Norc is a good way to test the AR15 waters. Update to this I saw a CQA on the EE for $450 I believe recently and it even had some US made magpul furniture on it.
Like I said before, I would put a Norinco AR15 up against any of the bottom of the barrel lowest priced "made in fackin' 'Merica!" AR's currently available personally as far as reliability and value for your dollar.
You buy it for $450, shoot the unholy piss out of it. You may decide you want a longer barrel, heavier barrel, lighter build, flat top, dedicated iron, original/classic/retro rifle etc etc or even build your own to exactly what you want. Sell the Norc for $350 and then start chasing what you want/what you have learned from owning your first one.
Or hell you may not like the hassle of having to go to some Fudd infested range 3 hrs drive just to shoot a long gun one bullet loaded at a time right?
AR resale is terrible in Canada because everyone wants a very specific AR. That's why customized AR15's sit on the EE for months and months getting bumped to death. Noone wants to buy what YOU consider to be the ideal AR. They all want to buy one and modify to their taste.
There is always someone looking to test the AR waters for the $350-$450 price range for a stock rifle though!
 
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