Thoughts on a S & W triple lock in 455

tokguy

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I'm working on a deal for a S & W triple in 455 webley, it's on my bucket list.
But I am very much a shooter, so I didn't go for the safe queen.
Is it worth the trouble to keep it in 455, or should I rechamber it to a more common loading? I do reload but 455 is a tad scarce, not a common load like a 45 lc.
I know the 'mericans usually rechambered them.
Or is it too much of a travesty doing that?
 
Fiocchi makes .455 for a bout a buck a round, and reloading components are somewhat available brass bullets etc (Jethunter on here makes bullets for the webley in a few diameters and weights if my memory is correct)
Or you can look around for one that is already in 45 Long Colt and keep the purists happy.

just my 5 cents on the matter
 
I love the .455 round. It really isn't much more difficult to get components for than 45colt. Budget shooter supplies carries original style bullets, as well as jethunter. I have a sw .455 with a 45acp cylinder, but would much rather the original .455, so I may be interested in trading if you do get the gun and it's in original condition. DO not permanently modify it!!
What year is yours and is it a genuine triple lock?
 
They are too valuable to re-chamber, just shorten .45LC or .45 Schofield brass to your chamber length if you can not find any .455 brass. Most Webley WG's chambers and shoots all three as the only real difference is in case and chamber length, they all have the same case diameter. You may have to thin down the case head thickness, but this has not been a problem for me.
 
Not a clue as to years and such.
The Seller graciously marked it SPF but I know precious little about it, I just always wanted a triple Smith.
I'll likely leave it as is, mayhaps a good re-blue ... or not.
I just know precious little about 455's is all
Cool, I like the LC trick. That's all I needed to leave it be.
Thanks guys
 
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I have a S&W Triple Lock as well.

If you go to the Tradex site banner on top of the page, you will see they have some as new, still in grease 45acp barrels. These will fit very nicely on your pistol.

They cost about a hundred dollars each. Any competent gunsmith can do the job of replacing the barrels in about an hour.

These barrels have a few thou smaller diameter bore and you can load regular flat base bullets into them and still achieve decent accuracy.

If you can, look up the bulletbarn.ca site and check out the diameter of the cast lead bullets they sell. I had a TL several moons ago that was stolen from my house. Its bore measured at .451 and shot regular .452-.454 bullets that were readily available very well.

How much do you shoot???? Do you reload???

45LC brass is easily converted to fit the cylinders of the .455. Go to a machinist or even just chuck them up in a drill and file down the rims so they allow free rotation of the chamber. The cases can be shortened with a cheap pipe cutter or sawn off very carefully with a hack saw while chucked into the drill.

This is a one time operation and the cases will last a long time.

The original .455 loading was cast lead with hollow base bullets. IMHO, cast lead bullets shoot best with a slightly faster burning powder. Be careful with the powder used in those TLs, they aren't nearly as strong as the present modern revolvers of similar size.
 
I got a triple lock in 455 Webley, the gun has been reblued, so its a shooter, IMHO if your TR is all original and in good shape, better leave it as is, vintage S&W revolvers are getting harder to find and price reflect accordingly.

Factory ammo is a bit expensive, but once you got the brass, the rest are easy, I load mine with .452/230gr. bullets for my 1911 and I can't tell the difference accuracy wise between them and .454/255 gr. Hornady Cowboy bullets, brass last a long time if you keep the pressure on the mild side, I'm still using some CIL Dominion .455 Colt brass, must be at least 60 yrs old.
 
Apparently it's mechanically quite tight, just a worn finish.
I reload 41 lc already so I think I'll be okay to brew up a working load for this one too.
I think I'm drawn to odd loadings.
38 lc, 9 x 23 steyr-Hahn, 44 Russian, odd Belgian cal's; as long as I can shoot it I'm happy.
Shot a Kimberly 1911A1 in 45 AC last evening, not that impressive IMO. Glocks...ho - hum.
Smith triple, now we are talking!
 
Hi, Tokguy!

I have one of those critters here, a veritable wreck of a battlefield pickup in .45 ACP..... and it might help you in a way.

When the Yanks decided to go "Over There" the contract on these was done but the machinery still was set-up, so the US ordered a whack of them in .45 ACP. They were used with those silly half-moon clips. AFTER the War, the guns were surplused and Remington started making a new cartridge for them, the .45 Auto Rimmed. Apart from the extra-thick rim, it is identical to a .455 Colt casing.

Just get .45AR brass and thin the rims..... and you have your brass. You can load it with .45ACP dies and some of JETHUNTER's bullets. I have a sample here of his .455 slug and it is perfect, according to my Text Book of Small Arms.

Hope this helps.
 
Oh, I'll likely cut down some 45 LC to get me by til Rusty gets some 45 AR brass in.
I think the local gun store has some LC there. I'll knock out the bullets ( and re-use after),trim it back, thin down rims and throat and reload with an LC holder and ACP dies.
Never have been afraid to mix and match a bit when it comes to odd rds & reloading. Can reload 9mm Steyr with 9mm luger / 357 mag dies mix and matched. It's surprising what will work to reload oddball stuff.
 
Oh, I'll likely cut down some 45 LC to get me by til Rusty gets some 45 AR brass in.
I think the local gun store has some LC there. I'll knock out the bullets ( and re-use after),trim it back, thin down rims and throat and reload with an LC holder and ACP dies.
Never have been afraid to mix and match a bit when it comes to odd rds & reloading. Can reload 9mm Steyr with 9mm luger / 357 mag dies mix and matched. It's surprising what will work to reload oddball stuff.

The rims need to be turned down from the front end, not the base end, of the brass. Buffalo Arms in Idaho used to make .455 brass from .45LC cases this way and did a good job of it.
 
Oh, I'll likely cut down some 45 LC to get me by til Rusty gets some 45 AR brass in.
I think the local gun store has some LC there. I'll knock out the bullets ( and re-use after),trim it back, thin down rims and throat and reload with an LC holder and ACP dies.
Never have been afraid to mix and match a bit when it comes to odd rds & reloading. Can reload 9mm Steyr with 9mm luger / 357 mag dies mix and matched. It's surprising what will work to reload oddball stuff.

tokguy, I can really understand your enthusiasm but your lack of perception as to what is necessary here is going to cause you a lot of grief.

I have an old bud that is doing what you are. He is not seeing what people are explaining to him, very well.

Please don't get the idea I'm calling you stupid or ignorant. I'm not. I'm sure you understand the concept but just aren't seeing the picture. I am guilty of this myself at times.

The 45AR cases will give you the same problems as 45LC cases or 45acp cases on half moon clips. The rims will be to large to allow the cylinder to swing into place in the frame or if you manage to force it closed, allow the cylinder to rotate.

As purple and others have mentioned, if you want to shoot the TL, you will either have to bite the bullet and purchase purpose made .455 brass or cut down the cases mentioned. It has to be done right, or they won't work.

If you cut down the stamped, face side of the case, your primer holes won't be deep enough and likely the case will be ruined. You need to thin out the rims from the underside, up to the case wall. None of this is rocket science. If you own an electric drill, with a chuck large enough to hold a mandrel that is sized to hold the inside of the case firmly enough so it won't spin, all of this can be accomplished with a file. As for trimming the cases, this can be done with a hand held pipe cutter available at any CT for around $10.

You can even make up the mandrel in the drill press with some due diligence.
 
Oh I can picture it in my head quite well.
My entire adult life has been spent field modifying things to function, lol.
I don't not own a lathe or milling machine but other than that I've about got it all.
I've built firing pins, revolver hands and R & R'd revolver cylinder stops on tired old wheelguns. I can fit, install new parts and ensure that a revolver is timed properly. Repaired antique double S x S's as well
Tempering or brazing is tedious but easily enough done.
Not a welder, machinist or mechanic; but have schooling in all of them as welll as experience too.
Typically I want one of every type Milsurp bolt action because I love seeing the ways that different mechanism's work.
Wood is my undoing but I love working with metal.
I rebuild ( including diagnosing and retiming) a 1889 Colt from a box of parts, lol. That gun is a delicate, finicky abortion at best, I've probably run 600-700 rounds through it and it shoots quite well...for me, lol. One does not let hamhanded curious folks handle it (why do they insist on trying to spin the cyl with their left hand like a monkey spinning a handdrill?). Makes my teeth grind.
I'll likely get that TL working with LC brass and if it's too big of a PITA I'll get in 455 brass. The weather is sh***y so shop time is easily done.
Thanks for the warning and no I'm not offended. I love puzzles made of metal.
I reform 24 ga brass into Snider-Enfield rds with a dremel reamed 6" piece of S-E bbl and a large vise. And they work pretty decent too.
Living in the country helps as test-firing (rifles only of course) is out the shop door with hearing protection and safety glasses and try it out. Guessing that would not fly in town...maybe in Saskatchewan, lol.
Shortening brass and shaping it too work is a time vampire, but it's my down season. I spend less money when I do this, it's the trips to town that are expensive.
Going to give a shout out to Smellie for advice rendered on a few of these projects, he has helped a lot with advice on these forgotten beasts.
Thanks for the advice folks
tokguy
I'll put up a few pic's after I get it and get some test firing done.
 
I have a S&W Triple Lock as well.

If you go to the Tradex site banner on top of the page, you will see they have some as new, still in grease 45acp barrels. These will fit very nicely on your pistol.

They cost about a hundred dollars each. Any competent gunsmith can do the job of replacing the barrels in about an hour.

snip.....

That isn't true, a triple lock barrel is unique to the triple lock, it has extra bits and pieces which are not on the barrels at Tradex
 
I'm working on a deal for a S & W triple in 455 webley, it's on my bucket list.
But I am very much a shooter, so I didn't go for the safe queen.
Is it worth the trouble to keep it in 455, or should I rechamber it to a more common loading? I do reload but 455 is a tad scarce, not a common load like a 45 lc.
I know the 'mericans usually rechambered them.
Or is it too much of a travesty doing that?

There is no reason in today's world to rechamber any triple lock to .45 anything.

In fact the cylinder length is too short to reasonably use it for .45 Long Colt, and there are other technical issues including having to shorten the cylinder from the back end to convert it to .45 ACP.
 
That isn't true, a triple lock barrel is unique to the triple lock, it has extra bits and pieces which are not on the barrels at Tradex

Well, I guess someone forgot to tell my TL that. All I had to do to change out the barrel was to make a small cut on the shoulder to get the S&W made Tradex surplus barrel to get it to index properly and then to recut the forcing cone and trim it to the proper length for clearance gap space.
 
If memory serves, the pin that locates the rear of the cylinder into the frame is normally in the forward position on the triple lock.
I'd be surprised if the 1950 bbls at tradeex, or any of the more modern non'TL ones, would have enough spring power in the bit on the barrel to push this pin into proper position. Obviously, the third lock in the shroud would be absent too. Pic?
R
 
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