Thoughts on Best Gun for Bear Defence...

A 12 ga shotgun loaded with the appropriate ammunition is a proven close range defender from dangerous wildlife. Occasionally I still do bear security work, and our clients, particularly on work sites, spread themselves over a wide area. In this scenario there is no substitute for a powerful rifle. Likewise, should a family member be 150 yards distant when they are unexpectedly confronted by a dangerous bear, if you've chosen a shotgun as your primary defensive arm, you have ensured you will be an observer rather than a participant ito what happens next.

While I enjoy shooting big rifles, they aren't for everyone. A .30/06 you can hit with trumps a .458 that you haven't mastered. I made up a bear gun for my wife, based on a Husqvarna 1600 21" carbine with the LOP cut to 12" with the Decelerator recoil pad, and mounted an XS ghost ring rear sight with a rectangular post front. She is able to shoot this rifle quickly, hits well, and isn't disturbed by the recoil. Hot loaded 180 gr TSXs ensure deep penetration, which is what you want facing the pointy end of a dangerous bear. While dangerous bear encounters can and do occur with large male bears, we've found that sub adults are frequently a bigger problem, so a high velocity big bore rifle, or even a hot loaded .45/70 might not be necessary. Regardless of which gun you choose, in any defensive scenario, competence is essential, and competence must be developed over time with frequent practice, not only in marksmanship, but in gun handling, loading, and manipulation of the action. You benefit by having all family members become competent, and due to the reduced recoil and blast of rifle cartridges with modest powder capacities, the rifle will be quicker to master than a 12 ga.

All that said, a 12 ga shotgun is a viable defensive tool, and if that's what you prefer to carry, you are far from being unarmed . . . providing you are competent with it. Frequently I carry a 12 ga, particularly when I'm near town or even when I just jump into the truck to go for a ride. I like the Brenneke 3" 600 gr slug loads, and I keep a few Federal Premium 3" 00 Buck 12 pellet loads in the sidesaddle should the potential overpenetration of a slug be inappropriate. I won't use less lethal ammunition like cracker shells or rubber bullets in the same gun I load with lethal ammo. Around here this is a minority opinion though, but I suggest the magazine be loaded with lethal ammunition and the less lethal rounds be single loaded as required. Just keep in mind that if the slide of the shotgun is fully retracted, a lethal round is now on the elevator, and be aware that less lethal rounds can be corrosive, and can leave partial bore obstructions in the barrel.

Your point about competence and practice can not be emphasized enough. There was a writing by Phil Shoemaker - no doubt based on his Vietnam days. He describes his own "worst case scenario", as a right handed shooter - in close cover, have just stepped forward with right foot - left foot is trailing - and threat emerges from your right side - what to do?? His solution, which he practices, is to swap hands on the rifle and shoot off his left shoulder! How to get your shot off, before that other guy did - no time to shuffle feet and get turned to "proper" right handed shooting stance. And, apparently, practice shows how many stock designs did not have that situation in mind - and he apparently does that with his 458 Win Mag - in "pucker bush" (willows), following up on a client's great bear!!
 
hard to imagine you could go wrong with a short 12 guage. however i think i think an iron sighted ruger 44 carbine automatic, either version, would be really outstanding. i've been looking for one no luck yet.
 
Imagine someone throwing a basket ball "bounce pass" to you from about 30 or forty feet - say the width of a basket ball court - use whatever you can hit that ball with - most times that will also be about the amount of notice that you will get that you are in trouble, the shooting distance is about right, and that basketball is likely a bit larger than what you have to actually put a hole in to stop it - not just to kill it, - but to stop it...

And, that pass could be coming from somewhere behind or the side, off of your strong side.
 
Last edited:
Imagine someone throwing a basket ball "bounce pass" to you from about 30 or forty feet - say the width of a basket ball court - use whatever you can hit that ball with - most times that will also be about the amount of notice that you will get that you are in trouble, the shooting distance is about right, and that basketball is likely a bit larger than what you have to actually put a hole in to stop it - not just to kill it, - but to stop it...

And, that pass could be coming from somewhere behind or the side, off of your strong side.

Problem solved. :p Not recommended fer pelt hunters. :runaway:
Flammenwerfer.jpg
 

Attachments

  • Flammenwerfer.jpg
    Flammenwerfer.jpg
    110.5 KB · Views: 258
UaiOjDh.jpg

vVkfBI6.jpg
 
Interested in anyone's thoughts on the best Bear Defence Gun for Yukon/BC/AB. Intent is not for hunting just as the more powerful pepper spray. I prefer my Remington 870 12 Gauge with Slugs and Double Buck.

Orpana, welcome to CGN. As you have probably surmised "bear defense" is a well worn topic as some of the community has inferred. I am assuming you are seeking information and a civil discussion.

Some thoughts....

If you refer to Boomers first post he makes a lot of sense. Probably the key take away is not so much the tool of choice, rather your ability with it.

Back in the early 80's, on the coast way back of Salmon inlet, I faced predatory sow with a cub, I was working, 500 meters up a steep hill from anyone or anything, all I had with me was my axe and my husky 2100xp (36" bar and a skip tooth chisel chain). I stood her down but it was not comfortable, she had her ears back and was making that clicking noise with her teeth. She came up to about 6" from the tip of the bar. Looking back the biggest thing I remember was, "Lord please don't let my saw throw the chain on her skull." She did back off and life went on. I don't recommend a chainsaw as a tool of choice.

Early 80's again, on the south coast of Nootka island we had a bad camp bear, the push had one of those semi auto Ruger 44's. I said I would give him a hand with the body when he went to deal with it. We waited by the garbage pile after work, when it came he shot it. I was standing beside him. The bear turned and ran at us from about 30 or 40 yards. He emptied his rifle into the front of that bear and it kept coming. I was thinking he was a really crappy shot. It skidded to a stop about 10 feet from us. Every shot made a hole in the shoulders and chest area. I think what actually stopped it was that both of his shoulders were busted up, at least that is what it felt like when we through him in the back of the truck.

I could go on but here are some key concepts to consider:
- bears bone structure is very dense. Accordingly I would not trust 12 gauge slugs to penetrate dependably. Consider straight buck shot if that is your tool of choice.
- bears have a robust constitution, That is, one can put several fatal shots in their heart lung area but even thought they are technically dead they will still go for 30 to 60 seconds before expiring. The exception to this is if you fatally shoot them before they get excited - then they usually just fold up and die.
- your best defense is your brain. I usually try to avoid and back away FACING THE BEAR. If you have to shoot do not waste a shell on scaring him, if he is truly coming you cannot scare him. Shoot to kill or incapacitate.
- practice with your tool. My tool used to be a Winchester model 1300. I used to set up milk jugs from 50 yards in and then I would load up and try to hit the jugs as I worked the action as fast as I could. Try it, not that easy and takes some practice. If you can hit most of them most of the time you will have a minimum competence level.

Welcome to CGN!
 
When I was in my early 20's, a buddy and I found a gravel pit with a very high wall - say 40 or more feet high - we dragged an empty 10 gallon grease drum up there - up to the top edge and balanced it on a stick. Down to flat bottom of the pit. One guy, from a rest, would shoot the stick - barrel would come rolling and bouncing down that grade - right at the other guy. We were "practicing" with our centre fire deer rifles. All in, that barrel probably travelled 35 or 40 yards, from a dead stop, before it got to the shooter. You have to try that some time, to believe how many times centerfire rifles can be fired, before a hole actually showed up in that barrel. And that was 5(?) or 10(?) times larger target than a "stopping" hit on the real thing... So as per poster above - if you plan to defend yourself - might want to discover if you actually can do it...
 
When I was in my early 20's, a buddy and I found a gravel pit with a very high wall - say 40 or more feet high - we dragged an empty 10 gallon grease drum up there - up to the top edge and balanced it on a stick. Down to flat bottom of the pit. One guy, from a rest, would shoot the stick - barrel would come rolling and bouncing down that grade - right at the other guy. We were "practicing" with our centre fire deer rifles. All in, that barrel probably travelled 35 or 40 yards, from a dead stop, before it got to the shooter. You have to try that some time, to believe how many times centerfire rifles can be fired, before a hole actually showed up in that barrel. And that was 5(?) or 10(?) times larger target than a "stopping" hit on the real thing... So as per poster above - if you plan to defend yourself - might want to discover if you actually can do it...

Same thing can be done with an old tire. Quite easy with buck shot actually
 
About this time, if the OP is still visiting this thread, I would ask what his bear experience is and what his shooting experience is. This is certainly pertinent to being able to provide specific information for him. The trilogy of bear attack books by James Gary Shelton is a worth while investment, as is the bear attack book by Stephen Herrero. The study of bear behavior is an important consideration, since in a nonhunting scenario there is no benefit to killing a bear unnecessarily. The bear cannot hurt you if it cannot touch you, therefore the purpose of shooting is to prevent the bear from touching you. When is it appropriate to shoot? That depends on how the bear is acting, and what you are willing to tolerate, but the bear is not committed to any particular action until he breaks the 30' barrier. Once he is focused on you and intentionally closes to within 30', you are at risk, but you should be alert to the fact that you might be facing a shooting situation long before then, if you are aware of his presence. However, just because a bear sees you from 50 yards away doesn't mean he's going to wander over and eat you, so shooting from that range doesn't give him much of a chance. That said it is important to know about how personal space differs between bear species.

When it comes to shooting, there are some skills that are essential. Snap shooting comes to mind, but also being able to judge where your bullet needs to strike. Body shots are not reliable stoppers, although they might be a necessary introduction in some circumstances. Should that be the case, go for a shoulder shot rather than a chest shot, breaking bone is good, and bone and bullet fragments will mess up the lungs and heart and the associated plumbing. If the bear is head on I favor a head shot, but the bullet impact must be within the width of the eyes, and ideally impact behind the eyes and in front of the ears. That's a pretty fine shot on a moving target, and one complicated by the offset between the gunsight and the bore. A shot that hits high might still win the day if it hits the spine, which its liable to do if the head is inline with the body at the time of the shot, but a low shot will likely not produce desirable results.

Occasionally we hear of a mauling victim who gets shot by the good Samaritan who is attempting to save him. If the bear is actually on someone and shooting is all that can save them, shoot away from the victim, either into the spine or through the hips. This minimizes the chances of hitting the victim, the bear won't like it, and will in all likelihood roll off his victim at which point he can be shot again and killed.

The rifle or shotgun should be carried in such a way that it limits fatigue, but is instantly available. Having the piece slung across your back is slow to get moving, where as slung muzzle down on your support side, African carry, or forced behind your arm in what's known as the jaeger carry both allow a very fast presentation. The forend is grasped by the support hand and the muzzle is pushed towards the target, the sling drops out of the way, the firing hand grabs the stock at the wrist, and pulls the butt to the shoulder. American carry, slung muzzle up on the strong side is not as fast as African of jaeger carry, but its much faster than having the piece slung across your back. The support hand reaches across the check and grabs the forend, pushes the muzzle towards the target, the sling drops clear, and the strong hand snatches the wrist of the stock and pulls the butt into the shoulder.
 
Does anyone one else find the search function nearly useless?
It rarely works for me and yet there were a few suggestions to use it.
I tried it again to check if somehow it magically works now. I typed in bear defense and got nothing.
 
Does anyone one else find the search function nearly useless?
It rarely works for me and yet there were a few suggestions to use it.
I tried it again to check if somehow it magically works now. I typed in bear defense and got nothing.

Probably system overload. :rolleyes:

Grizz
 
Does anyone one else find the search function nearly useless?
It rarely works for me and yet there were a few suggestions to use it.
I tried it again to check if somehow it magically works now. I typed in bear defense and got nothing.

Search for 'bear', select the option for all of the posts not just titles, select a timeframe (6 months, 1 year), and try searching that. Should find lots.
 
Back
Top Bottom