The only way to eliminate all the flaws is to eliminate classifications and shoots heads up for overall placement.
^^^^ This
Thoughts on how IPSC works
- Thread starter Madness
- Start date
^^^^ This
You forgot to add that is why you don't shoot your own provincial and national matches.
Slavex, I would hope that most shooters would rather be 7th overall than 1st A. Making everybody a winner is one of things that's wrong with society today.
I think people leave shooting sports when they stop having fun, not because they didn't win some silly merit award.
I think people leave shooting sports when they stop having fun, not because they didn't win some silly merit award.
You forgot to add that is why you don't shoot your own provincial and national matches.
I shoot them when I feel like shooting them, thats the bonus of living in a free country.
This.
Funny too that a lot of those who would argue for class awards because people like to win stuff would also argue against prize tables because its Not fair if people win stuff for shooting well. Instead we get goofy random draws. Why dont we just do random draw for plaques and trophies too?
Shoot heads up, you want to win something? Then do the work and earn it.
Otherwise shoot and have fun and dont worry about who takes home the big trophies and prizes.
I could care less about winning stuff.
We are in a country where our fun from handguns comes from shooting in competitive shooting sports such as IPSC, or shooting down range at paper from a port. Shooting IPSC is fun, so if you're getting into it, and you're looking for fame, fortune, and prizes it's better off to get into a different sport.
There is LOTS of room for improvement in IPSC, such as more matches, closer matches for people in the GTA, and less bickering (IPSC Ontario at least has it's daily drama).
We are in a country where our fun from handguns comes from shooting in competitive shooting sports such as IPSC, or shooting down range at paper from a port. Shooting IPSC is fun, so if you're getting into it, and you're looking for fame, fortune, and prizes it's better off to get into a different sport.
There is LOTS of room for improvement in IPSC, such as more matches, closer matches for people in the GTA, and less bickering (IPSC Ontario at least has it's daily drama).
I prefer random draws for prize tables actually. Sure set stuff aside for top finishers but have some for the other people too.
If we did away with classes and rankings I would bet we wouldn't have much of a sport anymore. I have no problem with people wanting to win Top A even if they don't care about being in 9th or 10th spot or whatever. To each their own. Pretty much every sport has a grading system of some kind. We are just one of the few that has all grades/classes together in matches. Which is good, because we simply aren't popular enough to have separate matches for different classes.
If we did away with classes and rankings I would bet we wouldn't have much of a sport anymore. I have no problem with people wanting to win Top A even if they don't care about being in 9th or 10th spot or whatever. To each their own. Pretty much every sport has a grading system of some kind. We are just one of the few that has all grades/classes together in matches. Which is good, because we simply aren't popular enough to have separate matches for different classes.
Starting in IPSC in '78, when it was still called 'Combat Shooting', at 'Item' targets, I've seen a lot come and go, including myself. It's gone a long way 'south' since then, and a long way from my 'God', Jeff Cooper's concept, pretty much starting in '82 with Shaw's compensators. At the U.S. Nationals in Moline, Ill., in '82, having never been in a Jacuzzi before, I decided to try the one at the 'host' hotel. I was joined by 2 other guys, who started talking about how 'gamey' IPSC was getting, John's compensator's, Tommy Campbell's 'spring open jacket' (at the time holster rules were 'must be concealable') , etc. . I 'chimed in' with what we were doing in Canada with 'Flashmatches' and 'Tac' matches, basically more 'realistic', but only occasional. This got one of the guys into obviously deep thought, smallish fellow with dark hair, he questioned me more on it, and we had quite the conversation. I subsequently discovered he was Bill Wilson, and the other guy was Richard Heinie !
I had joined USPSA when it started, and was # 006 International, mainly to support my friend Dave Stanford's idea of forming USPSA, but remained an IPSC/BC/World member for years, decades, actually. Shortly after that, 'fuming' about the shooters who ignored targets in favour of time, it's 'supposed to be 'DVC' NOT just 'C', I wrote to Nick Alexakos, asking if IPSC was a 'Game' or 'Practical' shooting, as the name implied. He responded "It's a game." So much for Cooper's concept.
'Speed' being paramount, followed by the 'You MUST do this, you MUST go here, you MUST, etc., etc.,', and the 'Gun of the Year' follies (over loaded .38 Super, 9mm Major, 'skeletonized' holsters, cut-throat politics, ad infinitum) I basically just shot 'Club' Matches. I then received a letter, no e-mail yet, from Richard Heinie saying, 'Keep an eye on Wilson, he's up to something.' lo' and behold, shortly later, I see in American Handgunner, this IDPA thing. I thought to myself 'Wilson, you 'S.O.B.', you were LISTENING in that Jacuzzi in '82 !
Well it took awhile with life's various, 'swerves' thrown at me, but I finally got around to trying IDPA, and although it's difficult to break decades of IPSC 'habits', I find it fascinating that I'm shooting it with the SAME .45 I won some 200-odd trophies, in the US and Canada, with in the '80's ! I suspect 'Uncle Jeff' is resting MUCH more peacefully, thanks to Bill Wilson. Yeah, IDPA is getting more 'politicised' all the time, but what DOESN'T ? Sure is nice NOT to have to go with that 'Gun of the Year' stuff too ! No 'trophies' in IDPA either, but that's okay, I frankly don't have the room for anymore 'dust gatherers' ! After, 'hip checking' a Toyota Crown in '91 in an M/C accident, I can't move fast enough to be 'competitive' in either ( the Toyota won, but I got the MONEY !), I went from No.6 at Canadian Nationals, to being 'whupped' by 'Unclassified' shooters. I'm CONVINCED they put a boat anchor in my Toyota smashed hip, and NOT a 'Surgical Pin' !
Whatever, as long as we're 'burning powder', and keep fighting the RCMP bureaucrats, with letters to MP's, to get our privileges BACK and not further eroded, it's all good !
BTW, Slavex, at 'The Memorial Revolvers Only' match at Chilliwack Fish and Game on Sept.14th, we WILL be using 'Item/IDPA' targets, no 'turtle shells', there will be 4 trophies, MW, Top Open, Top Standard, and Top Lady, and the ever increasing 'Prize Table' from our generous sponsors, WILL be strictly by DRAW to those still in attendance and 'socializing' with old friends and making new ones. Come on down, as they say.
Cheers,
Drew
I had joined USPSA when it started, and was # 006 International, mainly to support my friend Dave Stanford's idea of forming USPSA, but remained an IPSC/BC/World member for years, decades, actually. Shortly after that, 'fuming' about the shooters who ignored targets in favour of time, it's 'supposed to be 'DVC' NOT just 'C', I wrote to Nick Alexakos, asking if IPSC was a 'Game' or 'Practical' shooting, as the name implied. He responded "It's a game." So much for Cooper's concept.
'Speed' being paramount, followed by the 'You MUST do this, you MUST go here, you MUST, etc., etc.,', and the 'Gun of the Year' follies (over loaded .38 Super, 9mm Major, 'skeletonized' holsters, cut-throat politics, ad infinitum) I basically just shot 'Club' Matches. I then received a letter, no e-mail yet, from Richard Heinie saying, 'Keep an eye on Wilson, he's up to something.' lo' and behold, shortly later, I see in American Handgunner, this IDPA thing. I thought to myself 'Wilson, you 'S.O.B.', you were LISTENING in that Jacuzzi in '82 !
Well it took awhile with life's various, 'swerves' thrown at me, but I finally got around to trying IDPA, and although it's difficult to break decades of IPSC 'habits', I find it fascinating that I'm shooting it with the SAME .45 I won some 200-odd trophies, in the US and Canada, with in the '80's ! I suspect 'Uncle Jeff' is resting MUCH more peacefully, thanks to Bill Wilson. Yeah, IDPA is getting more 'politicised' all the time, but what DOESN'T ? Sure is nice NOT to have to go with that 'Gun of the Year' stuff too ! No 'trophies' in IDPA either, but that's okay, I frankly don't have the room for anymore 'dust gatherers' ! After, 'hip checking' a Toyota Crown in '91 in an M/C accident, I can't move fast enough to be 'competitive' in either ( the Toyota won, but I got the MONEY !), I went from No.6 at Canadian Nationals, to being 'whupped' by 'Unclassified' shooters. I'm CONVINCED they put a boat anchor in my Toyota smashed hip, and NOT a 'Surgical Pin' !
Whatever, as long as we're 'burning powder', and keep fighting the RCMP bureaucrats, with letters to MP's, to get our privileges BACK and not further eroded, it's all good !
BTW, Slavex, at 'The Memorial Revolvers Only' match at Chilliwack Fish and Game on Sept.14th, we WILL be using 'Item/IDPA' targets, no 'turtle shells', there will be 4 trophies, MW, Top Open, Top Standard, and Top Lady, and the ever increasing 'Prize Table' from our generous sponsors, WILL be strictly by DRAW to those still in attendance and 'socializing' with old friends and making new ones. Come on down, as they say.
Cheers,
Drew
I like playing IPSC as a game. It still helps develop accuracy on the clock, avoiding no-shoots and movement with the gun. The politics and the bickering amuse me and provide lots of good entertainment on the forums. I will try to stay out of it and won't be looking to get above the RO status lol To an outsider, IDPA seems more like a game that's trying not to look like a game. Still, I'll give it a shot for fun at some point. As long as it goes *BANG*, it's fun
I like playing IPSC as a game. It still helps develop accuracy on the clock, avoiding no-shoots and movement with the gun. The politics and the bickering amuse me and provide lots of good entertainment on the forums. I will try to stay out of it and won't be looking to get above the RO status lol To an outsider, IDPA seems more like a game that's trying not to look like a game. Still, I'll give it a shot for fun at some point. As long as it goes *BANG*, it's fun
Idpa and ipsc both claim to be practical....idpa is just a little closer to it
Thanks for the insight Drew. Good read. Looking to try some of both IDPA and IPSC again if winter eeeevvvvveerrrr leaves.
Really? You fail to see how concealing a glock in production is more practical than open carrying a fully tricked out open gun in a race holster? The division & equipment comparisons between IDPA and IPSC are dramatically different when viewed in the context of what is practical.
Even if you can't accept that, just look at the stage designs, IDPA is far more practical than IPSC.
Both are nothing more than games as far as I see it, but IDPA is absolutely closer to practicality than IPSC
That video to me doesn't demonstrate any practicality. Jumping walls isn't exactly something I would practice/train if I carried a firearm.
In my view, the fact that IDPA requires targets be engaged from cover, by itself, makes it far more realistic/practical than IPSC. I really wouldn't rely on either though if it came down do it.
Having said all that, I really don't see the point in continuing this trivial debate any further.
