It shouldn't be the buyers or the sellers responsibility to guarantee delivery. If you ship with Canada Post or any other carrier you are paying them for their service. They should guarantee to provide what you paid for, not tell you to buy extra insurance.
Thoughts on shipping rifles and insurance
- Thread starter jimmyjazz
- Start date
It shouldn't be the buyers or the sellers responsibility to guarantee delivery. If you ship with Canada Post or any other carrier you are paying them for their service. They should guarantee to provide what you paid for, not tell you to buy extra insurance.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
It suppose if you or I were the King of Canada Post, we could make it so, but, in my experience, when I order something I either want to receive my order or I want my money back. I do not see why I would think differently whether I ordered something from Cabela's or my CGN friend Mike in Canmore, or whether I was the seller. So far as I understand, Canada Post will only deal with their customer - that is, the person that mailed the item, NOT the person that it was addressed to. So, if something turns up missing in the Canada Post system, then I believe the buyer should be refunded what they paid. On the other hand, if Canada Post can show me that a signature was received at the correct address, so far as I am concerned, the buyer received the order. Making the details clear in arranging the deal will make all the difference in the world.
Two observations that surprised me when I had a rimfire rifle "lost" in transit and the aspect of insurance.
The first was how poor the Canada Post system is for handling lost items. Trying to talk to a human takes some effort in terms of time and patience, and when you do you wish you had not. So disinterested and frankly unhelpful. The package was CP + tracking & signature and it went missing at a facility. Hard to loose a rifle I think, compared to a letter / post card so after 2 weeks of it not 'moving' you get to the conclusion that someone has helped themselves to it. When this observation was shared with CP up goes the barriers, but no action on the 'loss'. After 3 weeks CP cancelled the claim, they stated that they could not contact the receiver (me) even though they had the correct telephone and e mail numbers.
The second item is that it is the sender is the one who receives the insurance money if the claim is successful. So you purchase an item, pay the additional for the insurance, and in the event of a loss, the money goes to the seller. So if you have anything less than a awesome seller you really have a challenge. The claim can go 6 months + and so the seller is the person who actually progresses the claim. Which is ironic, as he has already been paid, the deal is done, he has done his bit, and yet you now have to rely entirely on him to get some money back.
So on the aspect of insurance, I would heavy recommend that you set yourself a personal limit on what you are comfortable with sending via Canada Post. I have got it at around $500, anything more and I would request and pay the extra to have it couriered and to set up the pick up yourself.
An imperfect system which thankfully is normally reliable, but when it goes sideways, you do not have much chance of a positive outcome with their insurance.
Candocad.
The first was how poor the Canada Post system is for handling lost items. Trying to talk to a human takes some effort in terms of time and patience, and when you do you wish you had not. So disinterested and frankly unhelpful. The package was CP + tracking & signature and it went missing at a facility. Hard to loose a rifle I think, compared to a letter / post card so after 2 weeks of it not 'moving' you get to the conclusion that someone has helped themselves to it. When this observation was shared with CP up goes the barriers, but no action on the 'loss'. After 3 weeks CP cancelled the claim, they stated that they could not contact the receiver (me) even though they had the correct telephone and e mail numbers.
The second item is that it is the sender is the one who receives the insurance money if the claim is successful. So you purchase an item, pay the additional for the insurance, and in the event of a loss, the money goes to the seller. So if you have anything less than a awesome seller you really have a challenge. The claim can go 6 months + and so the seller is the person who actually progresses the claim. Which is ironic, as he has already been paid, the deal is done, he has done his bit, and yet you now have to rely entirely on him to get some money back.
So on the aspect of insurance, I would heavy recommend that you set yourself a personal limit on what you are comfortable with sending via Canada Post. I have got it at around $500, anything more and I would request and pay the extra to have it couriered and to set up the pick up yourself.
An imperfect system which thankfully is normally reliable, but when it goes sideways, you do not have much chance of a positive outcome with their insurance.
Candocad.
And what do you do if he doesn't???? Court??? Where may I ask?? His province or yours??
I agree with deerfarmer. If I buy something online, and it doesn’t deliver I want a refund. I’m pretty sure In a previous thread someone quoted a law stating until the buyer receives the goods, the transaction is incomplete and the buyer should get a refund. Basically, anyone can pay for insurance as a part of the deal, but only the shipper can initiate a claim and get paid. Because of this I think the liability falls on the shoulders of the seller. Also the seller pays CP to ship the package. If they don’t follow through, how is the that the buyers fault?
But you are correct. Collecting from an out of province seller, who refuses to refund your cash would suck. Not sure how that would work.
I would love to hear from someone who actually got their costs back out of Canada post after a shipment of a used firearm is lost.
It is a negotiation between seller and buyer whether there is insurance and who pays for it. A seller could demand the buyer pays for the insurance as it is the seller who will be out of pocket if the parcel goes missing... for instance lets say I sell a gun for $1000. It gets lost in the mail. The buyer gets his $1000 back. I now have no gun. I lost $1000. If I had insured the gun for $1000 and the parcel was lost, I would still have to refund the buyer but Canada Post would be paying me $1000 for the gun.
So how lucky do you feel. Canada Post is making a lot of money on insurance. I have never had a parcel go missing...and I have been using Canada Parcel Post for 50 years.
I usually ship cheapest parcel post with a signature required (insurance value of $100 is included) and I pack the item extremely well so it does not receive damage in transit. The buyer has to sign for the parcel. That is my proof he received it.
So how lucky do you feel. Canada Post is making a lot of money on insurance. I have never had a parcel go missing...and I have been using Canada Parcel Post for 50 years.
I usually ship cheapest parcel post with a signature required (insurance value of $100 is included) and I pack the item extremely well so it does not receive damage in transit. The buyer has to sign for the parcel. That is my proof he received it.
handofzeus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Trout Creekish Ontario.
I agree. I often just go ahead and pay for insurance when shipping items to the buyer. When I buy something from Amazon or anywhere for that matter I expect that once I have paid full asking price for an item it is the responsibility of the vendor to make sure I get my item. It does blow my mind that some folks here think the reverse.
Shipping and insurance and type of delivery should be clearly understood by both parties in advance of completing a deal. I generally sell items for "$###.xx shipped." Shipped means, Regular mail with $100 insurance and signature required. If the buyer wants additional insurance that cost is on them ($2.20/$100 value). I package extremely securely and send pictures of the parcel and tracking receipt to the buyer, so that it is clearly in the hands of CP... if there is a problem enroute, we both have to patiently work with the awkward CP resolution system... and all of this is understood and agreed to BEFORE the deal is finalized. Being on the same page is critical.
I received refunds from CP twice. Once they damaged rims that I shipped and refunded the full amount of the purchased insurance. I had to spend a lot of time on the phone though and the process wasn't fast. The second time, CP missed the guaranteed delivery date, I made a claim and they refunded a shipping cost to me. Fortunately, I have never had any issues with the guns I shipped.
Not saying I don't agree with him just asking what one can do.
I know when I was involved with one That if canada post didnot pay I had to file in the sellers province and attend court there like I could afford to do that.Plus no garantee I was going to win the case
In the end canada post did come through for some over a year later
I have never had a rifle lost but have been paid for four damaged ones
Cheers
Here we go again.........................
Yup... There was a thread that derailed maybe a month ago about this...
Here is my take:
If its under 100$, you get free insurance, and signature
If its above 100$, I will ask you if you want insurance and add it to your price. You are still getting free signature option. If you buyer doesnt want insurance, I'll screenshot the answer along with shipping adress and ship with signature.
When I buy and I want it insured, I'll request it and pay for it.
handofzeus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Trout Creekish Ontario.
Why not? If someone on the EE is taking in somebody's hard earned dollars why should they NOT try to satisfy their customer? I see zero difference other than some odd perception that private sales don't warrant the same level of security and satisfaction as commercial sales.
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Not with the CP small business card. You get 100$ insurance coverage + free upgrade to express post
Ok Thank you. Cannot get them any more like one once could have to be a real business now
Cheers
Simple because the business has insurance above and beyond canada post to cover such and they care about repeat business from the same customer
Someone on EE not so much. It is not perception it is fact with many people
What recourse do you really have and don't say small claims court unless that process has changed for out of province dealings
Trader rating sure is a help but it is not e-bay with their programs
Private sales always have some degree of risk vs buying from a business and many sellers think once shipped per the agreement the buyer selects it is finished with the tracking number being passed on
Cheers
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