Tikka T1x for the win.

grauhanen said:
Myke, you seem to be a disputatious fellow at best and I've often asked you quit making a nuisance of yourself. Perhaps your dogged criticism fulfills a need that psychologists could explain. No matter, I find it difficult to take you seriously as you blow hot and cold. Perhaps its too much homemade. I really don't know. But if you want to fight, get married or join the army. Both offer better opportunities for battling real and imagined foes than I will. I don't want to fight with you.

In any case, I'm not jumping on anyone, least of all you so don't take this the wrong way -- if that's possible. I'm trying to note how exceptional a factory sporter must be to achieve such notable results with non-match ammo, an achievement that may impress and astonish a lot of shooters.

But seeing as you can't resist not only following me around when I post here and RFC but challenging my views at every opportunity, why don't you offer an explanation why CCI ammo has a better ES than many match ammos? Maybe it does. Maybe this is an unusually good batch of CCI Subsonic HP ammo. I don't shoot CCI ammo and perhaps you can shed some light. In any event, a low ES is necessary for 3 - 4.5" ten shot groups at 200 yards regardless of the rifle and shooter. Ammo with an ES greater than 50 fps cannot achieve such groups at 200 yards even with a perfect rifle and perfect shooting. There's no way around that.

Regarding the the Tikka T1X and the Vudoo, you say "I don't understand why the comparison was even brought up." The reason is simple, so it's hard to see why you don't understand. I'll explain.

The Tikka was said to shoot ten shot groups outdoors at 50 yards with CCI that were under .500". I think that's a commendable achievement. Incredible and extraordinary were the words I used. I said many shooters "would be overjoyed to shoot consistent sub-.5" five-shot-groups with CCI at 50 yards." I stand by that.

To put the Tikka TIX's ten shot groups in perspective, I compared it in an earlier post with the standard Anschutz supposedly has for its rifles' ten shot groups. Anschutz puts the barreled actions in a vise and shoots in an indoor test tunnel. The Anschutz ten shot groups must be no larger than 18mm (.709") at 50 yards or the rifle is sent back to the factory for further work.

To add further perspective, I offered the comparison with the much-talked-about Vudoo rifle. On RFC, the designer and maker of the Vudoo rifle, posting under the name RAVAGE, said that the Vudoo was tested at the Lapua testing facility (presumably the one in Mesa, Arizona). In the indoor test tunnel in a specially made fixture or vise, the Vudoo shot what RAVAGE believed was that facility's indoor test tunnel record of the smallest ten shot group at 50 yards up to that time which was "less than" 13mm (or .512"). This measurement was outside edge measured, as confirmed by RAVAGE just today on RFC. (See h t t p s://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11669853&postcount=91 )

I think it's remarkable that a sporter shot outdoors with CCI ammo achieve results close to those achieved by a Vudoo clamped in a vise shooting indoors with match ammo. That is why I made the comparison -- to put things in perspective. I don't know about other test facility records and they aren't at issue here.
Click to expand...


Most if not all of my CZ .22 FS rifles shoot .5” at 50 ten shot groups, to be honest if that don’t do that or near with the ammo they like the most I sell them. If you take a look at the CCI subsonic 40 grain lead hollow point reviews online you will see it outshoots a lot of match ammo. It’s a pretty consistent ammunition some of my other rifles won’t shoot it well but the tikka likes it a lot. As for the 200 yard target I would wager I can shrink those groups on a nice calm warm day.
 
Slipery said:
Most if not all of my CZ .22 FS rifles shoot .5” at 50 ten shot groups, to be honest if that don’t do that or near with the ammo they like the most I sell them. If you take a look at the CCI subsonic 40 grain lead hollow point reviews online you will see it outshoots a lot of match ammo. It’s a pretty consistent ammunition some of my other rifles won’t shoot it well but the tikka likes it a lot. As for the 200 yard target I would wager I can shrink those groups on a nice calm warm day.
Click to expand...

Indeed. You hold a high standard of accuracy for your rifles. Anyone who can shoot consistent 50 yard ten shot groups in .5" or better with stock CZ .22 rimfire rifles -- or with any other factory barrelled rifle for that matter -- deserves a tip of the hat. Few shooters can equal that.
 
grauhanen said:
Indeed. You hold a high standard of accuracy for your rifles. Anyone who can shoot consistent 50 yard ten shot groups in .5" or better with stock CZ .22 rimfire rifles -- or with any other factory barrelled rifle for that matter -- deserves a tip of the hat. Few shooters can equal that.
Click to expand...

I have never owned at custom barreled .22 in the years that I have been shooting and most factory CZ rifles will shoot that with the right ammo. I had an older fellow tell me that he use to compete at a few ranges 25 and 50 meter (he shot a CZ 455) and he was out shooting annies all day, not to say anschutz make a bad rimfire my father ownes a couple and they do very well shooting groups. I think a big part of it is not finding an ammunition that your rifle likes. the first picture is the bulk winchester dynapoint GT target. that was initial testing of the different ammo at 50 yards off of one bag lying prone.. i only shoot 5 shot groups when testing ammo and then shoot ten shot groups with the ammo the rifle likes to get a better idea of consistency. for me a have different ammunition for most of my rifles in the same caliber because they shoot the stuff differently, i may go to the extreme but i hunt alot and i like to know when i pull the trigger my shot is going where the cross-hairs are placed.


 
Slipery said:
I have never owned at custom barreled .22 in the years that I have been shooting and most factory CZ rifles will shoot that with the right ammo. I had an older fellow tell me that he use to compete at a few ranges 25 and 50 meter (he shot a CZ 455) and he was out shooting annies all day, not to say anschutz make a bad rimfire my father ownes a couple and they do very well shooting groups. I think a big part of it is not finding an ammunition that your rifle likes.
Click to expand...

That's quite an endorsement of the CZ 455 as well as a bit of a concession to Anschutz. I understand they make a fairly decent rifle, but evidently not quite up to CZ and Tikka.
 
grauhanen said:
That's quite an endorsement of the CZ 455 as well as a bit of a concession to Anschutz. I understand they make a fairly decent rifle, but evidently not quite up to CZ and Tikka.
Click to expand...

ahh sarcasm the wit of the foolish? is that the quote?? skepticism to! not to worry i have owned anschutz rifles and have been well pleased with the way they shoot. I shoot .22 rifles far more than most as well as some nice PCP i dont often post but i was well pleased with my rifle, i know what it can shoot weather someone thinks otherwise or not, I have read your posts on my threads and i realize you think its a falsehood without stating as much, if you have something to say why not say it and move on?
 
RabidM4U5 said:
Oh Glenn... I wish you'd fact check yourself, so that I don't have to keep doing this (correcting you, that is). Please, stop misleading people.



Are marital spats no longer scratching your combative itch? You seem to be jumping all over anyone who says they did some good shooting lately. Drink a beer, smoke a spliff and chill the heff out, man.
Click to expand...

i measure center to center so im not quite sure why this is considered extra ordinary lol. pretty much all my .22 bolt rifles i own with the right ammo will shoot .5 center to center. Grauhanen seems to take the long winded approach to telling people he thinks they are full of it :)
 
The "occasional" .5" group is much different then .5" every time you shoot it I think is the point...
Lots of these types threads on this forum, my favorite is the guy shooting 3000fps with his 6.5CM with 147gr pills and claims it's not over pressure.
Everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt on gun forums.
 
I love my Tikka T1X. Sold my CZ 455 Supermatch after I got it. There was nothing wrong with the 455, I just prefer the T1X. The T1X shoots better than the 455 with CCI 40 grain ammo from the bench with bags.
 
Slipery said:
ahh sarcasm the wit of the foolish? is that the quote?? skepticism to! not to worry i have owned anschutz rifles and have been well pleased with the way they shoot. I shoot .22 rifles far more than most as well as some nice PCP i dont often post but i was well pleased with my rifle, i know what it can shoot weather someone thinks otherwise or not, I have read your posts on my threads and i realize you think its a falsehood without stating as much, if you have something to say why not say it and move on?
Click to expand...

I restated what can be directly taken from what you yourself explained. You said that not only were your CZ rifles notably accurate, but that your older friend, using a CZ rifle also, was "outshooting annies all day" -- even though Anschutz was a not "a bad rimfire". That's not sarcasm, it's irony -- the incongruity between expectations and reality. Many people might expect an Anschutz to prevail over a CZ 455 -- yet it didn't. Indeed your experience with your rifles, the Tikka and the CZ full stock .22LR's, are similar. Think of it this way: "Ironically, instead of the Anschutz shooting better, it was the less expensive CZ's and the Tikka that outshot the German rifle."

I didn't say you were making falsehoods. I put what you said in perspective by comparing your results with what Anschutz has as its accuracy standard. I also gave the Vudoo example as an illustration of how that rifle shot compared with your Tikka. I said your rifle was unusual in its accuracy and was producing extraordinary results. I also said your shooting skills were very good. I cautioned readers that they may not be so fortunate as to get a T1X that shoots as well as yours because the results you described are exceptional. Exceptions are uncommon. In short, whenever a factory-barreled sporter shoots consistent sub-.500" ten shot groups outdoors at 50 yards it's unusual. Unusual means it isn't a regular occurrence, regardless of what ammo is used.

If other shooters commonly shoot consistent sub-.500" ten shot groups at 50 yards outdoors with a factory barreled sporter perhaps they will let readers know. In that case your rifle and the shooting described may not be so unusual after all. In the meantime think of your rifles and the consistent results you achieve with them as something worthy of note. Again, I tip my hat to you.
 
I said consistent not every group, but it’s far from occasional. My job isn’t to prove to everyone I or the rifle can shoot that. It was meant to show that I’m well pleased with my rifle and that it’s a recommended buy. If people don’t believe it that’s no worries I enjoy shooting and that’s the end goal
 
Last edited:
grauhanen said:
I restated what can be directly taken from what you yourself explained. You said that not only were your CZ rifles notably accurate, but that your older friend, using a CZ rifle also, was "outshooting annies all day" -- even though Anschutz was a not "a bad rimfire". That's not sarcasm, it's irony -- the incongruity between expectations and reality. Many people might expect an Anschutz to prevail over a CZ 455 -- yet it didn't. Indeed your experience with your rifles, the Tikka and the CZ full stock .22LR's, are similar. Think of it this way: "Ironically, instead of the Anschutz shooting better, it was the less expensive CZ's and the Tikka that outshot the German rifle."

I didn't say you were making falsehoods. I put what you said in perspective by comparing your results with what Anschutz has as its accuracy standard. I also gave the Vudoo example as an illustration of how that rifle shot compared with your Tikka. I said your rifle was unusual in its accuracy and was producing extraordinary results. I also said your shooting skills were very good. I cautioned readers that they may not be so fortunate as to get a T1X that shoots as well as yours because the results you described are exceptional. Exceptions are uncommon. In short, whenever a factory-barreled sporter shoots consistent sub-.500" ten shot groups outdoors at 50 yards it's unusual. Unusual means it isn't a regular occurrence, regardless of what ammo is used.

If other shooters commonly shoot consistent sub-.500" ten shot groups at 50 yards outdoors with a factory barreled sporter perhaps they will let readers know. In that case your rifle and the shooting described may not be so unusual after all. In the meantime think of your rifles and the consistent results you achieve with them as something worthy of note. Again, I tip my hat to you.
Click to expand...

My apologies if there was zero sarcasm to your previous comment, it certainly came off that way because we both know that Anschutz makes lovely rifles that are great shooters and are of better finishes than the CZ and tikka. I buy quality products for the most part and I expect them to perform as such otherwise they get sold. I’m frankly surprised that anyone finds it surprising that shooting good consistent 10 shot groups at 50 yards is other worldly. I will say I measure my groups center to center but I thought that was standard when measuring groups. For example a .625” group outside edge to outside edge is .5” or there abouts center to center. Anyway this post was to show off A rifle that a guy is very happy with and a recommendation to anyone else thinking of picking one up.
 
Last edited:
Well, I should probably stay out of this, but the dialogue so far has piqued my interest.
As an individual who loves accurate rimfires, and has several right now that will shoot
the ½" at 50 M, I have to support grauhanen's take on the subject.
I have not owned nor shot a T1x, so will leave that seemingly exceptional rifle off my
list.
However, I have owned several CZ rifles: 452, 453, 455. All were quite accurate, but
I would never take one to a serious competition, even with ammo they liked.
I have a lot of respect for Anschutz, and own a M54 match HB that shoots better groups
than any of my CZ's could.
Others that outshoot even my Annie are: a Suhl 150 Standard, prepped by Jim Williams,
a 40X Remington HB, and a Model 37 Remington.
A couple of these rifles will shoot .25" at 50 with a certain lot of Eley Match EPS ammo.
Obviously not every groups will be that small, but it shows their capability.
The 40x holds the record 50/50 target here at our club.
See 3 groups [10-shot] at 50M below
 
Eagleye said:
Well, I should probably stay out of this, but the dialogue so far has piqued my interest.
As an individual who loves accurate rimfires, and has several right now that will shoot
the ½" at 50 M, I have to support grauhanen's take on the subject.
I have not owned nor shot a T1x, so will leave that seemingly exceptional rifle off my
list.
However, I have owned several CZ rifles: 452, 453, 455. All were quite accurate, but
I would never take one to a serious competition, even with ammo they liked.
I have a lot of respect for Anschutz, and own a M54 match HB that shoots better groups
than any of my CZ's could.
Others that outshoot even my Annie are: a Suhl 150 Standard, prepped by Jim Williams,
a 40X Remington HB, and a Model 37 Remington.
A couple of these rifles will shoot .25" at 50 with a certain lot of Eley Match EPS ammo.
Obviously not every groups will be that small, but it shows their capability.
The 40x holds the record 50/50 target here at our club.
See 3 groups [10-shot] at 50M below
Click to expand...

Your picture doesn’t work, I will post some photos of some groups next time I am at the range so it’s more believable.
 
This was the target you can't see.
Targ111002.jpg
 
I was going to quote a few of the comments in this thread, but decided not too. Clearly, grauhanen was challenging the reported accuracy early-on, and likelihood of that rifle/ammo being able to achieve it with any degree of consistency. I wondered about it too, not as a challenge to Slipery's account so much...but in gauging my own interest in a T1X someday. If/when I'm convinced that the average T1X can outshoot a CZ 452, I'm sure that buying one will become a bit of a priority..but until then.. lol I have no desire to chase the rimfire/accuracy thing to extreme lengths (time or $) but I get the appeal. Shooting gophers out west might not be everybody's cup of tea either, but for this Ontarian...it's my favourite thing to do when I pick up a rimfire. :) For that reason...I'd rather put my resources into the costs to get out there for a week, so growing the collection will always take a back seat. I may never own the top-tier 22s...but I'm OK with the trade-off. For my purposes, knowing what high-velocity/inexpensive/high-volume HP ammos will shoot best in my CZ 452 Varmint=that's valuable information. Reliable, 3/4"-ish groups @ 50 yards is my sort of benchmark.

My most accurate 22 is an Anschutz 64, and though I may have posted these 2 photos recently...here they are again. What really stands-out to me about this gun is this; it seems that everyone who shoots it (regardless of experience level) seems to get good results. I won't defend what I call "good", you decide. lol This is my 15 year old son, with very little time on this rifle...and only a passing interest in 22s to begin with. Group shot at a ranged 50 yards, ammo was SK Rifle Match.

jW1kFHA.jpg


KAdHRr1.jpg


Yes, I'm proud of my son for sure...but it's been my experience that CZs just can't achieve the same accuracy level as reliably, in the hands of most shooters. I have to imagine the Tikkas are in the same realm, but I've yet to shoot one. The most remarkable groups I've shot with this 64 are significantly better than the best I've achieved with my 2 CZ 452s. I'm of the opinion that Anschutz rifles are in a class of their own, at least among the makes I've tried. Admittedly, guys like grauhanen and Eagle Eye have more time/experience behind even finer rifles...so I read their comments with interest. This is CGN though...so if you make an accuracy claim, be prepared to back it up/defend it. lol I say that because I believe that it would probably take an exceptional Tikka to shoot as well as an average Anschutz. Not saying impossible. There are lots of other factors (including rifle fit + technique) that quietly make huge differences in results downrange. Some guns that should shoot amazingly sometimes don't, and vice versa. I've seen this plenty of times.

Anyhow, I guess my comments are directed towards the OP. TONS of expertise on this forum, and lots of people here to both support, and challenge those brave enough to make accuracy claims. For better, or for worse. lol The OP's Tikka is a beautiful gun, and I once owned a 22 that REALLY favoured those subsonic, LR HP rounds too. If the OP has found a good factory Tikka that really hits it out of the park accuracy-wise~hold onto it tightly! My Anschutz 64 shoots top-tier ammo the way it should, field-grade/CCI stuff a little better than the CZ..but not far off. The CZ shoots almost everything decently, and some cheap ammo very well.

Which is better? Neither, but both hold a valuable place in the safe.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom