Tipping your outfitter

K
sheephunter said:
I've heard the same. In some ways I get it because the TV crews are there working as well, it's not a holiday for them...it's another day at work and no one is tipping them for each day but it's unfair too because while the outfitter gets all the exposure from the show and all the money from the bookings that come with it, to the guide it's just another hunter.


There is definitely no such thing as a free hunt......
Click to expand...


I think he means the tv hosts' costs are paid for by the network, not out of their own pocket.
 
medvedqc said:
thanks for taking the bait and that is interesting because as an host and outdoor writer you certainly dont or didnt pay the price that is written on the documentation or the internet website.

the exposure is not only for the outfitter but too on the shows produced. i know at least 4 shows that didnt pay a dime and didnt left any tips and they received the service as any other clients should receive ....

Of course for an host it s a work but it s not a common work ask the guys that are paying the full price what they think about that ... otherwise dont tell us you are bored at work ....
Click to expand...

I didn't take any bait....I knew exactly what you were up to but it seemed a good opportunity to explain a bit of the business side of television. I guarantee they paid....perhaps not in a traditional way but they paid nonetheless....likely a lot more than some of the regular hunters in many cases. I don't know of any outfitters that operate as charities. There are no free hunts. You are correct, it's not a common job and that's why few people really understand the business side of it. The costs of travel, production and buying air time easily run into the hundreds of thousands if not millions on some of the U.S. channels. If you really think these hunts are free, borrow a couple hundred grand and start a show and go see the world.....lol

As for tipping guides, I always do....likely more than most but as I say, I understand why some may feel they don't have to but I also understand that it's hardly fair to the guide. I've worked both sides of the fence...guide and hunter so perhaps I have bit deeper understanding than some.
 
squamishhunter said:
K


I think he means the tv hosts' costs are paid for by the network, not out of their own pocket.
Click to expand...

He may mean that but it's not true. 99% of all hunting television shows are independently produced and not only does the network not pay them, the network charges them to air their program on the network. There is a lot of money that comes out of their own pockets...travel, production costs, air-time purchase plus all the regular costs of running a business. There are no free hunts.
 
sheephunter said:
He may mean that but it's not true. 99% of all hunting television shows are independently produced and not only does the network not pay them, the network charges them to air their program on the network. There is a lot of money that comes out of their own pockets...travel, production costs, air-time purchase plus all the regular costs of running a business. There are no free hunts.
Click to expand...

I think you know what he means. :rolleyes:
They aren't paying for the hunt itself like the other hunters in camp. Of course there are additional costs, but in exchange for the advertising, the outfitter won't charge for a hunt, unless it's a high priced one, then maybe enough to cover his expenses.
 
bearkilr said:
I think you know what he means. :rolleyes:
They aren't paying for the hunt itself like the other hunters in camp. Of course there are additional costs, but in exchange for the advertising, the outfitter won't charge for a hunt, unless it's a high priced one, then maybe enough to cover his expenses.
Click to expand...

Who knows how other hunters in camp are paying for their hunts but I'd bet they aren't there for free either...no one in camp is. No outfitters that I know run a charity. It's interesting how knowledgeable people are about the outfitting and television business.....despite the fact they are fairly uncommon occupations. Age of the internet I guess.
 
sheephunter said:
Who knows how other hunters in camp are paying for their hunts but I'd bet they aren't there for free either...no one in camp is. No outfitters that I know run a charity. It's interesting how knowledgeable people are about the outfitting and television business.....despite the fact they are fairly uncommon occupations. Age of the internet I guess.
Click to expand...

I would imagine other hunters are paying with money, not free advertising, which may or may not pay off for the outfitter, depending on the popularity of the show and the audience it reaches. However, that's ultimately the outfitters decision. Not saying there's anything wrong with it, but the fact remains that successful television shows don't pay directly for a hunt like other hunters. Of course they have their expenses, it's a for-profit business, is it not?
And I do know what I'm talking about.
 
Tipping is part of life... Tipping is to say thanks for the good service... But also to prepare your next visit, a very good tip will alway put you ahead for the next time... JP.
 
bearkilr said:
I would imagine other hunters are paying with money,
Click to expand...

You'd imagine but who knows what the carpenter, the lawyer, the plumber, the taxidermist and the ATV dealer is actually paying......none of my business but like you say...you'd imagine but who really knows. Kind of like some imagine TV shows get a steady supply of free hunts.............but enough of this derail......I happily tip a good guide and cook but rarely an outfitter.
 
bearkilr said:
I would imagine other hunters are paying with money, not free advertising, which may or may not pay off for the outfitter, depending on the popularity of the show and the audience it reaches. However, that's ultimately the outfitters decision. Not saying there's anything wrong with it, but the fact remains that successful television shows don't pay directly for a hunt like other hunters. Of course they have their expenses, it's a for-profit business, is it not?
And I do know what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

Sponsor money probably covers some of the costs, but I can't begin to guess what it costs to fly yourself and a couple of cameramen to Tanzania and then pay for a 21 day full bag hunt, then produce 2 or 3 half hour shows about it. Then there is the emotional cost to your soul that you have to pay every time you tell a bunch of unsuspecting rubes that you trust your life to your Havalon knife and they can too. and substitute any number of other things in there too...I'm not singling out Jim. I want to see someone say that they trust their life to a Merkel Double and Barnes solids but, sadly, that has yet to come to pass.
 
sheephunter said:
You'd imagine but who knows what the carpenter, the lawyer, the plumber, the taxidermist and the ATV dealer is actually paying......none of my business but like you say...you'd imagine but who really knows. Kind of like some imagine TV shows get a steady supply of free hunts.............but enough of this derail......I happily tip a good guide and cook but rarely an outfitter.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by that. I don't think that many outfitters give their local tradesmen free hunts in exchange for work. In fact, I don't know any outfitters that have guided locals.

But I agree, outfitters shouldn't get tips.

BigUglyMan said:
Sponsor money probably covers some of the costs, but I can't begin to guess what it costs to fly yourself and a couple of cameramen to Tanzania and then pay for a 21 day full bag hunt, then produce 2 or 3 half hour shows about it. Then there is the emotional cost to your soul that you have to pay every time you tell a bunch of unsuspecting rubes that you trust your life to your Havalon knife and they can too. and substitute any number of other things in there too...I'm not singling out Jim. I want to see someone say that they trust their life to a Merkel Double and Barnes solids but, sadly, that has yet to come to pass.
Click to expand...

Since we can't really compare TV hunting personalities to Doctor's Without Borders or the Salvation Army, I guess it's like any other business, if you're going broke or don't like what you're doing, then something needs to be changed, right?

In regard to tipping, I just think expectations have gotten out of hand in recent years. It should never be seen as compulsory or expected. I always tip and quite often probably too much, but exactly how much should always be my decision. Automatically adding gratuities onto a bill or having a set percentage is ludicrous.
 
Bearkillr is right about added tips heing inappropriate. Its all based on service. I guide in an industry where there is no waiting for hunters after dropping off etc so will stand by my 18 hr days. I recently spoke with a camp manager who talked about his guides having the tip chat with guests. Wholy and completely inappropriate. My first words to him were fire your guides as it reflects on the whole operation. I was actually astounded to hear this and it caused me reflection on whats appropriate. In our lodge there's a small description on gratuities as its one of the most common questions of the outfitter. As fot tv hosts etc. I have had good and bad. I have no idea what the cost or payment is for their hunt however I wouldnt put them as the easiest guys to have in camp. I guided one fairly prominent name in the waterfowl world for years and I got a hat for my troubles.....he got some of my best hunts ever. However to each their own and whatever is passed on for gratuity is a completely personal choice.
 
bearkilr said:
That may be your experience, but I've been in this business for 25 years+ and I haven't seen the figures you're quoting. You need to remember that a lot of the time guiding in MB is spent sitting around waiting for a hunter or game, so while total time works out to be minimum wage, I don't know too many employers outside of government agencies that pay their employees to sit on their ass. Out of close to 100 moose hunters over the years, one fellow gave a tip of $1300. The rest were all in the $100-$500 range. If they're European, often nothing.
I know for a fact that guides in the US make considerably less, often no more than $50/day, so they rely on tips quite heavily. Same goes for those in the service industry, they are allowed to be paid below minimum wage because of the tips.
Click to expand...

Bearkilr,

for the european clients the service is already included so they dont think about tip.
 
sheephunter said:
I didn't take any bait....I knew exactly what you were up to but it seemed a good opportunity to explain a bit of the business side of television. I guarantee they paid....perhaps not in a traditional way but they paid nonetheless....likely a lot more than some of the regular hunters in many cases. I don't know of any outfitters that operate as charities. There are no free hunts. You are correct, it's not a common job and that's why few people really understand the business side of it. The costs of travel, production and buying air time easily run into the hundreds of thousands if not millions on some of the U.S. channels. If you really think these hunts are free, borrow a couple hundred grand and start a show and go see the world.....lol

As for tipping guides, I always do....likely more than most but as I say, I understand why some may feel they don't have to but I also understand that it's hardly fair to the guide. I've worked both sides of the fence...guide and hunter so perhaps I have bit deeper understanding than some.
Click to expand...

i always love the way you play.

it is business and part of your business is hunting and showing how good the hunt is, then hunters will dream about going there paying the full price.

of course you have to pay the air fares, your staff and the time on the network(not sure about that part) but you dont pay what the regular hunters pay we all agree on that.

i dont have the editing knowledge nor any will to create another show, that is a job not mine but as any especially a public one like yours you have always be sure you are promoting the right outfit otherwise he can haunts down forever.

for the sake of the thread you should say who you are.

your friends and admirers can name you here the others cant how bizarre is it ...
 
I wish outfitters would just pay their employees a fair wage and tips just became a thing of the past. Its probably too late though, even if it were included, some would insist on tipping anyway and some would insist on hinting about them anyway. Its too ingrained to go away.

I'm not convinced that tipping brings out the best in performance but it sure seems to bring out the petty in people, and that's from both sides. I have had some luck with giving trackers some money at the beginning of a hunt or around the first animal. That generally wakes them right up or at least acting so.
 
Its kind of trivial for someone who has a TV show that showcases guided hunts from around the world claims he personally pays as much or more than a nobody. The rich and famous get a better deal and better service 99.9% of the time because these businesses can profit heavily on that type of advertising (word of mouth from the rich and famous).

In the case of a TV show hiring the services of an outfitter, only the show pays, it does not get deducted from the wage of the personality they send on the hunt. It is also discounted because of the advertising the outfitter is getting in return.

I am talking a regularly programmed TV show on a network, not some guy that sells DVD's
 
2233 said:
Bearkillr is right about added tips heing inappropriate. Its all based on service. I guide in an industry where there is no waiting for hunters after dropping off etc so will stand by my 18 hr days. I recently spoke with a camp manager who talked about his guides having the tip chat with guests. Wholy and completely inappropriate. My first words to him were fire your guides as it reflects on the whole operation. I was actually astounded to hear this and it caused me reflection on whats appropriate. In our lodge there's a small description on gratuities as its one of the most common questions of the outfitter. As fot tv hosts etc. I have had good and bad. I have no idea what the cost or payment is for their hunt however I wouldnt put them as the easiest guys to have in camp. I guided one fairly prominent name in the waterfowl world for years and I got a hat for my troubles.....he got some of my best hunts ever. However to each their own and whatever is passed on for gratuity is a completely personal choice.
Click to expand...

This is the way it should be. I hate it when I see outfitted hunts advertised and then they have a little blurb on the end about tipping 20-30% of the cost of the hunt.....hmmm...so on a 4 day $4k mule deer antelope hunt I should be kicking in another $800-1200? I don't think so. Maybe $100 or $200 but that's tops.

No guide has ever had the "tipping conversation" with me. Good thing too because they wouldn't get tipped then......
 
Lots of resorts, cruises, etc are going away from tipping, banning it actually and firing staff if they accept a tip. Many are realising their staff has begun to only give good service (or any at all) to those that tip the most which hurts their ratings and end profit on a much larger scale than just paying them all a little more.
 
So if a TV show crew goes on a hunt and have a ####ty hunt or problems with the outfitter/guide etc, do they still promote that outfitter during their show and after????????

As well, if I was going with an outfitter or guided hunt, I certainly wouldn't want to be going the same time as a TV show crew. Because I am pretty sure I know who is going to get their A game.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom