Trimming to short

[moosehunter]

im shooting a Chiapas Quiggly Sharps in 45-70. What are the risks or effects of trimming shorter than the Sammi recommended length? I’m shooting smokeless powders.

 

[DGY]

Depending how short is too short, but I don’t think you would see a difference!

 

[Sun_and_Steel_77]

Carbon ring could develop over time.
Straight walled you should be just fine, think .38spc out of a 357
Did you come up short by accident or is there some other reason?

 

[iron cat]

Be aware tgat Hornady once fired brass is shorter than other brands , especially the stuff used for the FTX ammo . It is VERY short!
However, if you keep an eye on your chamber ypu will be fine .
I have no experience at all with Smokeless and Sharps copies, but can tell you with power coating and soft lead bullets with black powder , I have no really issues.
I try tp keep my brass fairly long with the paper patch bullets, but of I am running a patch through after every shot it's a non issue as well as fat as paper build up is concerned .
Cat

 

[Potashminer]

There might be something else that someone knows about it, but your chamber is cut with a recess to accommodate the case neck diameter - that is a larger diameter than the bullet - usually well ahead of SAAMI case length - so is important not to go "too long" with your case - otherwise no where for the case mouth to go to - gets "curled in" and pinches against the bullet. I am not sure there is a danger issue with "too short" trim length, although there might be such a danger, that I am not aware of. Virtually every case that I load is either trimmed or checked with the Lee Case Length Gauge trimmer - I have no clue what length those are made to - there are several dozen various calibre and cartridge here.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

How much too short?

 

[Deathrawt]

The hornady 450 marlin ammo also uses shorter brass
Shorter brass will work fine it’s like shooting a 38 special in a 357

 

[270WSMXBolt]

Makes me itchy. And the carbon ring thing. Cheers

 

[moosehunter]

I’ve got brass as short as 1.970 but I don’t use it. I found an article that said no problem with 2.085 so a lot of my brass is close to that so I just trimmed it down to that. Not a compressed load with 47.5gr of IMR 3031. What think you?

 

[rule .303]

im shooting a Chiapas Quiggly Sharps in 45-70. What are the risks or effects of trimming shorter than the Sammi recommended length? I’m shooting smokeless powders.

Won't matter one bit

 

[sc42]

Hornady reloading app info for 45-70 325ftx bullets is case trim length of 2.040 which is shortest I've seen. 'Jump' of the bullet to the barrel affects accuracy I am told so maybe only affect your accuracy depending on bullet you use and OAL??

 

[moosehunter]

I would assume a shorter case would produce higher pressures but don’t know how much. I’m trying for an accurate load in the low 1800 fps area. With the 405 that should take down anything I want to 300yds.

 

[boxhitch]

I would assume a shorter case would produce higher pressures but don’t know how much

Not at all.........maybe
if you load to the same crimp in the same groove, with the same powder load, short brass makes for less space so yes, more pressure likely

With the same bullet, if you load short and long brass to the same oal, then nothing has changed internally.
Loading for a single-shot, you don't have to crimp so can seat to any spot on the bullet you chose, pick the oal that you want

I found the hard way that seating/crimping short brass to a shorter oal caused feed problems in a lever gun, thats a different kettle

 

[moosehunter]

Very wise reply. You’re right about the feeding issues. Even in a single feed not crimping can be a problem. Without a tiny little crimp or some kind it’s over chamber dimensions and is hard to feed. Got to find that sweet spot where it’s smooth on the thumb to slide over the brass/lead union if you get my meaning. You had to bell the brass to get a smooth bullet seat now you gotta get that bell out.

 

[moosehunter]

A lesson to all. If you watched Quiggley down under and bought a Sharps for that reason the first lesson learned is the movie is total bull####. They are beautiful rifles and another lesson you learn is they take you back to the bare basics of shooting. If your loading procedure is a little out in some area, your breathing is out, your trigger pull isn’t perfect, you missed the wind etc etc its not I’m a little off its where the hell did that go.

 

[Dreaded Platypus]

A lesson to all. If you watched Quiggley down under and bought a Sharps for that reason the first lesson learned is the movie is total bull####. They are beautiful rifles and another lesson you learn is they take you back to the bare basics of shooting. If your loading procedure is a little out in some area, your breathing is out, your trigger pull isn’t perfect, you missed the wind etc etc its not I’m a little off its where the hell did that go.

LOL

Learning all about that with my new Shiloh 45-70 "CreedmoorTarget" model...
I used to obsess with getting my 50x scoped rifles to under 0.25moa.
Now I am delighted with 2 or 3 moa with irons, of course...

 

[fingers284]

Ha Ha Ha ya , HUGE learning curve between shooting long distances with modern adjustable cross hair scopes to shooting Vernier or any tang Iron sights...most take a long time missing tatgets before they learn that the difference is that with scoped guns the bore is lifted or lowered, with Vernier or tang the buttstock is the mover and the front sight remains locked to target no mater what range you are shooting, 50 yrd or a 1000 .

 

[boxhitch]

Scope or irons, the geometry is the same, just a different picture

not sure what is BS about the Quigley ? off-hand long shots are suspect but the cartridge and rifle are capable

 

[iron cat]

Scope or irons, the geometry is the same, just a different picture

not sure what is BS about the Quigley ? off-hand long shots are suspect but the cartridge and rifle are capable

Tom Selleck had two rifles built for that movie, one with the long barrel in 45/110, and the other in 45/70 with a shorter barrel for the general shooting .
Selleck BTW is no stranger to BPCR rifles .
However, anyone who has shot a 45/110 with full power loads can tell you it is
A: not as simple as "point and shoot"
B: they are generally heavy .
C: paper patch shooting is another universe when it comes to working up a load.
As far as scopes and irons go, mist people find it easier to adjust the irons, but many need to go to optics simply to see because their eyes don't work well with iron sights.
I have owned several traditional style scopes on Sharps and Highwall rifles and I really like shooting them fir fun, but I like irons better.
Cat

 

[I Dont Care About You]

Hornady reloading app info for 45-70 325ftx bullets is case trim length of 2.040 which is shortest I've seen. 'Jump' of the bullet to the barrel affects accuracy I am told so maybe only affect your accuracy depending on bullet you use and OAL??

How exactly does case length affect bullet jump, which is entirely a function of seating depth as measured from the case head? The location of the case mouth has FA to do with the bullet seat depth unless one is totally anal and just has to crimp into the cannelure.

I would assume a shorter case would produce higher pressures but don’t know how much.

Why would you assume that? If the bullet is seated to the same depth, what does case length have to do with that?

You had to bell the brass to get a smooth bullet seat now you gotta get that bell out.

Seating dies remove the case mouth bell. A crimp die pushes the case mouth inwards from the case wall, or neck in the case of a conventional rifle case.

If you watched Quiggley down under and bought a Sharps for that reason the first lesson learned is the movie is total bull####

How is the movie "total bullish!t"?

I watched a guy hit a 55gal drum from 900 yds offhand with a 45-70. With enough practice, that kind of shot can absolutely be done. The bucket scene never says how far of a shot Quigley made.