Tripods and gear.....From a match directors point of view

Let people bring whatever gear they want to a match. They have to set it up on the clock - none of this pre-staging BS. For certain stages, you can limit gear use (i.e. one bag only). But I wouldn't put gear restrictions on the entire match.

I don't like gaming, but it's up to the MD to find ways to prevent gaming and making the stage challenging, and the RO's to enforce it. If you don't want someone to use a tripod on a certain stage because it will potentially take all the challenge away, then don't allow tripods for that specific stage.

Most of the really good shooters in PRS are only carrying around limited equipment, like 1-2 bags, and may or may not carry around a tripod depending on the match. Carrying around a lot of gear is not going to make you a good PRS shooter. In fact, those that I see struggle most in PRS matches at the mid level are those trying to utilize too much gear.
 
kthomas said:
Let people bring whatever gear they want to a match. They have to set it up on the clock - none of this pre-staging BS. For certain stages, you can limit gear use (i.e. one bag only). But I wouldn't put gear restrictions on the entire match.

I don't like gaming, but it's up to the MD to find ways to prevent gaming and making the stage challenging, and the RO's to enforce it. If you don't want someone to use a tripod on a certain stage because it will potentially take all the challenge away, then don't allow tripods for that specific stage.

Most of the really good shooters in PRS are only carrying around limited equipment, like 1-2 bags, and may or may not carry around a tripod depending on the match. Carrying around a lot of gear is not going to make you a good PRS shooter. In fact, those that I see struggle most in PRS matches at the mid level are those trying to utilize too much gear.
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I don’t intend to limit gear, just trying to see what’s fair. I tend to agree that set up should be done on the clock, not before. If I want to challenge shooters I will, and have, put gear limits on stages.
Thanks for the feedback.
 
kthomas said:
Let people bring whatever gear they want to a match. They have to set it up on the clock - none of this pre-staging BS. For certain stages, you can limit gear use (i.e. one bag only). But I wouldn't put gear restrictions on the entire match.

I don't like gaming, but it's up to the MD to find ways to prevent gaming and making the stage challenging, and the RO's to enforce it. If you don't want someone to use a tripod on a certain stage because it will potentially take all the challenge away, then don't allow tripods for that specific stage.

Most of the really good shooters in PRS are only carrying around limited equipment, like 1-2 bags, and may or may not carry around a tripod depending on the match. Carrying around a lot of gear is not going to make you a good PRS shooter. In fact, those that I see struggle most in PRS matches at the mid level are those trying to utilize too much gear.
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Agreed. Use whatever gear you want, but you're on the clock. This is how Bluewater Sportman's Club in Michigan ran their precision matches last summer and I thought it was very fair. Most of the guys who had tripods spent too much time setting them up. They're only an advantage if you practice!

Far as a gear-race, I get it, but a GC bag is $150 and Hog Shadow tripod is something like $300. Share with a buddy, save up, or train without. We're spending enough on everything else that these no longer look like expensive items. That said, I'm a fan of the "less is more" approach.
 
rgv said:
To all the MD’s out there (who I truly appreciate and respect), it works like this:

Open (any gear) Match

Top guys (ie the ones who practice) take the top spots.

New guys get their eyes opened and the competitive ones get on the practice and training program to be a top guy.

Peanut gallery shouts out “look at the a$$holes in jerseys gaming it !! That’s why I don’t shoot PRS “ and carries on not shooting matches but instead posts multiple pics of their cherry picked groups at close range, their single digit SD shown on their labradar screen and how if PRS was more ‘real world’ they would shoot matches.


Limited Gear Match

Top guys (ie the ones who practice) take the top spots.

New guys get their eyes opened and the competitive ones get on the practice and training program to be a top guy.

Peanut gallery shouts out “look at the a$$holes in jerseys gaming it!! That’s why I don’t shoot PRS“ and carries on not shooting matches but instead posts multiple pics of their cherry picked groups at close range and/or their single digit SD shown on their labradar screen and how if PRS was more ‘real world’ they would shoot matches.

Multiple Class Multiple Division Match

Top guys (ie the ones who practice) take the top spots.

New guys get their eyes opened and the competitive ones get on the practice and training program to be a top guy.

Peanut gallery shouts out “look at the a$$holes in jerseys winning a prize because there’s two guys in his division !! That’s why I don’t shoot PRS. me and my gun don’t fit any of those classes or divisions too bad or I’d have shot the match and won my division.” and carries on not shooting matches but instead posts multiple pics of their cherry picked groups at close range and/or their single digit SD shown on their labradar screen and how if PRS was more ‘real world’ they would shoot matches.

.

So.... just run your matches the way you like, write the stage briefs to be easy to follow and enforced by RO’s, and we’ll come shoot them, have fun, and the sport will continue to grow.

The Gear Race only resides in the imagination of the non-participants.
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This is the truth.

I'm of the belief that if the intent of the stage is for it to be shot off a tripod, then setup should be allowed before the clock starts and a tripod provided for those who don't have one. If not, start all stages with all gear in hand and go from there. I don't have any issues with legs being extended before the clock starts but if it's your match, you can always stipulate that all gear be in your pack or whatever floats your boat. Just make sure you proof out your stage so it's feasible to complete in the time you allocate to it.

To the clowns that think that "no one in the real world/operators/super secret squirrels" use tripods, look up some photos from the USSOCOM sniper match. Your heads will explode.
 
coyoteking said:
Really? Outside of heavy machine guns in the military , where are all these tripods being used?

They don’t seem very practical to me, especially if they take so long to set up that the work needs to be done before the stage begins.
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You are obviously way out in left field on this. Try competing in a true field type match without one and see how you do. More importantly Military and Police Snipers have been deploying with tripods for decades. As far as being practical, you would be very stupid or at a real disadvantage not having one at your disposal.
 
I am all for finding new tools to improve my chances, it helps the sport grow. But I still don’t want to wake up knowing I own a $1000 tripod that I use as an occasional rear support. While I’m still relatively new, I have participated in several matches under various directors. I do not own a tripod although I have borrowed them. There has been only one occasion where I felt at a significant disadvantage without the pod and that was on a reverse-sloping rooftop. However, if I could have practiced that position, I would have found a reasonable solution with a bag, in fact a large surplus duffle-properly stuffed- would have been perfect.

I think this reiterates what most are saying, practice will overcome the equipment advantage. Everything is done while on the clock. Good stage design levels the playing field.
 
While I am just starting into the PRS sport, what it boils down to me is that there are shooting problems, and shooting solutions. Tactical accuracy with a long gun has evolved dramatically in the last few years due to individuals trying new gear out to enhance stability while completing the shooting fundamentals, and stifling this trend would be, IMHO, the wrong path. As others have said, let the clock dictate the answer to the riddle, but progress has been made in this game, and for real-world applications, because there were little to no restrictions on the solve.
 
coyoteking said:
Really? Outside of heavy machine guns in the military , where are all these tripods being used?

They don’t seem very practical to me, especially if they take so long to set up that the work needs to be done before the stage begins.
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I don't shoot PRS but I do use a tripod ALL the time while coyote hunting. It is my main piece of equipment. I need something stable with long legs when hunting in deep snow.
 
What if the competitors had to run an "obstacle course" and perform a "stalk" with the kit they're using on their way to the firing line? See how many people bring big gear at that point.

-S.
 
Maple Leaf Pilgrim said:
What if the competitors had to run an "obstacle course" and perform a "stalk" with the kit they're using on their way to the firing line? See how many people bring big gear at that point.

-S.
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Then people would adapt and products would be marketed to suit that.

This sport has evolved with some great new products and People can choose to shoot what they want and how they want it. As said before lots of people have got caught up in the gear race but many have settled back to a few key components that allow them to manage their accuracy and time best. Some choose to do it with a tripod some not. It all has its place weather it's in a match or a plinking or hunting application.
 
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Maple Leaf Pilgrim said:
What if the competitors had to run an "obstacle course" and perform a "stalk" with the kit they're using on their way to the firing line? See how many people bring big gear at that point.

-S.
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Everything most people carry can fit in a 30L pack and the tripod can sling to the outside. There really isnt that much gear and the bags everyone complains about are light (most people don't use many anyways).

At the RLRR match we had a couple treks a K+ between each stage.
 
Ryan.M.Anderson said:
Everything most people carry can fit in a 30L pack and the tripod can sling to the outside. There really isnt that much gear and the bags everyone complains about are light (most people don't use many anyways).

At the RLRR match we had a couple treks a K+ between each stage.
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So it'll be no problem for them to TAB it in. Problem solved.

-S.
 
Maple Leaf Pilgrim said:
So it'll be no problem for them to TAB it in. Problem solved.

-S.
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What Ryan said, most people use something the size of a 3-day assault pack and easily carry all their gear. I shoot field matches as well where you hike maybe 6+ miles in a day going from stage to stage and carry the exact same load as I do for a PRS/NRL match. Rifle (sometimes add in pistol and/or carbine), tripod, game changer, pump pillow, ammo, food, water, rain gear, tools, binos, lrf. Sometimes I carry a 2nd tripod for a spotter as well. It's not a real heavy load if you're moderately fit, about a 30-35lbs pack + your rifle. I shot one field match 2 weeks after knee surgery, needed a trekking pole to walk but there ya have it.

If you're interested in matches that really require you to manage the amount of weight you carry around, look into the Sniper Adventure Challenge, Mammoth Sniper Challenge or any of the Bushnell Elite Tactical Sniper matches. All those have a division where you not only carry all your gear on your back for the day but actually for the whole weekend, including food and tent/sleeping kit and you have to make time hacks for the rucks. Funny enough, most competitors carry at least one tripod, haha.

The thing people forget (or just don't get) about PRS-type matches is that they aren't a dry-run or training for some sort of sniper fantasy. There are plenty of aspects that transfer over to guys who do that kinda thing for a living (and there are plenty of them who shoot matches) but these matches are shooting matches not sniper matches.
 
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