Trudeau and Blair BAN 12 Gauge and 10 Gauge SHOTGUNS!

Dave Arnold said:
I carry emergency distress flares when boating and when flying in remote (bush) areas. Standard European or surplus Emergency flares are 26.5 mm (launcher bore approx 26.6 mm). A standard accessory for 26.mm launcher is a 26.5mm to 12 ga. insert adapter to allow use of 12 ga flares. The 12 ga adapter has a bore at its breech of 20.5 mm.

What will the status of emergency/survival flare launchers be under SOR/2020-96 ?
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per the gazette (emphasis mine) "95 Any firearm with a bore diameter of 20 mm or greater — other than one designed exclusively for the purpose of neutralizing explosive devices — including the
..."

Per the firearms act (which I don't have at my fingertips at the moment, sorry) a flare gun is safety gear and lumps with bolt guns and a bunch of other stuff that is deemed not to be a firearm, at least until you plug someone with one, then it becomes a firearm.
 
Those are clear non confusing rules…+ 20mm bore = Prohibited.

I have 2 shotguns that mesure 20.07 and the other 20.4..
Sorry this is as pure as it get… Jeezz.
 
Mds694 said:
Show me, must’ve missed it.
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Dont take our word for it...

I highly encourage everyone to read the full OIC. Read Ed's release and have a working knowledge of how firearms are classified in Canada...

Remember... guns in Canada are not classified by "industry standards". So if we are saying normal industry standards for bore measurement then how are we applying the industry standard for "military style" assault weapons?

From there I encourage you to lay out your case as to why Ed and Soloman are wrong...

I'm not sure a lot of Judges rule on what the public safety minister intends... should be interesting....

I dont think Ed and Soloman would be saying this if they werent pretty darn sure they f'd up and bad..
 
Mds694 said:
Legally define bore for me please...
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Defined in Ed's press release as the forensic standard in Canada...

Unless firearms classification isnt based on the forensic standard...

If it is it's easily defined... because it's the entire basis for the FA classification system...

Do you honestly think these two firearms lawyers dont know this but you do?
 
I think you surely can go out with your 10/12ga and no one will charge you for that as a common sense.

However, if the 10/12ga > 20mm will be involved in the shooting spree, domestic violence or even a stupid accident - the game will change. In judge's view once thing is when damn NR duck gun is used, and a totally different story when technically prohib device is used. The precedent will be set.
 
scottsman said:
I can’t define.
You can’t define it.
The firearms act doesn’t define it.
Bill Blair can’t define it.
The judge presiding over your case will define it.
The risk is yours.
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Precisely thank you. Until a judge defines it shotguns are NOT banned. So can we all agree to stop stating they are now and move on? Thanks.
 
CosmiC10R said:
Defined in Ed's press release as the forensic standard in Canada...

Unless firearms classification isnt based on the forensic standard...

If it is it's easily defined... because it's the entire basis for the FA classification system...

Do you honestly think these two firearms lawyers dont know this but you do?
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I honestly think firearms lawyers are looking to drum up support and business by spreading questionable interpretations of a term with no legal definition. Has a bore ever been defined in case law or legal document anywhere in Canada?
 
Mds694 said:
Precisely thank you. Until a judge defines it shotguns are NOT banned. So can we all agree to stop stating they are now and move on? Thanks.
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Any time you leave the house with a threaded bore shotgun you are effectively risking your future. But that is your choice. Have at it.
 
Mds694 said:
I honestly think firearms lawyers are looking to drum up support and business by spreading questionable interpretations of a term with no legal definition. Has a bore ever been defined in case law or legal document anywhere in Canada?
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Or maybe in a classification system? As a basis to restrict owners from owning and legally using certain items...

If I was to take a stab at it

Sure Ed and Soloman would be retained to read the OIC... do you have an idea how many people on here ##### the orgs don't do enough...

Are you seriously suggesting that it would be fine for the orgs to NOT look into it legally...

JFC... this is where we are at...


Expecting the orgs not to hire legal experts and trusting Bill Blair's tweets...

Holy ####ing ####....

What I expect happened is Ed and Soloman found a poorly written piece of legislation rammed through by morons and found that it has tremendous problems outside of the garbage ban in the first place...

The only thing holding me back is technically Michael Avenatti is a lawyer too... I expect Ed and Soloman likely have a better understanding of their professional reputation then Avenatti does... ymmv
 
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CosmiC10R said:
Or maybe in a classification system? As a basis to restrict owners from owning and legally using certain items...

If I was to take a stab at it

Sure Ed and Soloman would be retained to read the OIC... do you have an idea how many people on here ##### the orgs don't do enough...

Are you seriously suggesting that it would be fine for the orgs to NOT look into it legally...

JFC... this is where we are at...


Expecting the orgs not to hire legal experts and trusting Bill Blair's tweets...

Holy ####ing ####....

What I expect happened is Ed and Soloman found a poorly written piece of legislation rammed through by morons and found that it has tremendous problems outside of the garbage ban in the first place...

The only thing holding me back is technically Michael Avenatti is a lawyer too... I expect Ed and Soloman likely have a better understanding of their professional reputation then Avenatti does... ymmv
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It’s one thing to say that without a legal definition of bore and how it is measured that there is some level uncertainty in what firearms it pertains too. It’s another to start a thread stating “Trudeau and Blair BAN 12 Gauge and 10 Gauge SHOTGUNS!” That’s all for now folks.
 
Mds694 said:
Precisely thank you. Until a judge defines it shotguns are NOT banned. So can we all agree to stop stating they are now and move on? Thanks.
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By the same account you can use unlimited mags for 10/22 and Beowulf magazines.

On a side note, I think the chance of anyone using a 12/10G shotgun to end up in prison is so minuscule that you're more likely to die in a car accident on your way to the hunting cabin. However, I would definitely stop selling them if I was a retailer. There's a large difference between a cop/prosecutor/judge being lenient and not wanting to send someone to jail for one or two millimeters, and the same judge being lenient with a business selling prohibited weapons. Although the owner of that hypothetical store would probably not make it to jail either, its FA business licence would probably go out the window.
 
Mds694 said:
It’s one thing to say that without a legal definition of bore and how it is measured that there is some level uncertainty in what firearms it pertains too. It’s another to start a thread stating “Trudeau and Blair BAN 12 Gauge and 10 Gauge SHOTGUNS!” That’s all for now folks.
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So a forensic standard isnt a legal definition?

I wonder what they use in court? I wonder if they use the forensic standard of Canada to classify firearms? Say
... over the Saami standard?

If they use the Saami standard then I would expect Ed and Soloman are wrong... I also suspect the two of them know this exactly....
 
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