Trudeau and Blair BAN 12 Gauge and 10 Gauge SHOTGUNS!

Jay said:
^Dohhunter...

We most certainly live in interesting times. I never thought I would see licensed firearms owners defending the minister tasked with implementing Canada's latest gun ban, but here we are. Have a look around, plenty of these folks are defending the minister & posting his tweet refuting Ed Burlew's legal opinion that the OIC impacts 10ga and 12ga shotguns with removable choke tubes.

Let's recap.

Ed Burlew is a lawyer & wrote a detailed opinion for the CSSA. The minister is not a lawyer & his tweet is hardly something you could use to defend yourself in court with. And as others have said, the judge will look at the OIC, which is now law, and make a ruling which will set a legal precedent.

What we know is that 10ga & 12ga shotguns with their screw in choke tubes removed, exceed the 20mm OIC as written. Furthermore, screwing in a choke tube to make the bore diameter less than 20mm, is like attaching a flash hider and claiming it increases barrel length. Both are illegal.

The Technical Spec for measuring a shotgun, requires the choke tube to be removed.

View attachment 380442

By now, I'm hoping you are starting to see the light as to where the confusion comes in...

Here's an example:

A Winchester SX3 shotgun with it's choke tube out exceeds 20mm. (0.836" = 21.23mm)

View attachment 380443
Click to expand...

Where though, I have yet to see, is it cited that measuring the removable choke are is "The forensic Standard"
 
Jay said:
^Dohhunter...

We most certainly live in interesting times. I never thought I would see licensed firearms owners defending the minister tasked with implementing Canada's latest gun ban, but here we are. Have a look around, plenty of these folks are defending the minister & posting his tweet refuting Ed Burlew's legal opinion that the OIC impacts 10ga and 12ga shotguns with removable choke tubes.

Let's recap.

Ed Burlew is a lawyer & wrote a detailed opinion for the CSSA. The minister is not a lawyer & his tweet is hardly something you could use to defend yourself in court with. And as others have said, the judge will look at the OIC, which is now law, and make a ruling which will set a legal precedent.

What we know is that 10ga & 12ga shotguns with their screw in choke tubes removed, exceed the 20mm OIC as written. Furthermore, screwing in a choke tube to make the bore diameter less than 20mm, is like attaching a flash hider and claiming it increases barrel length. Both are illegal.

The Technical Spec for measuring a shotgun, requires the choke tube to be removed.

View attachment 380442

By now, I'm hoping you are starting to see the light as to where the confusion comes in...

Here's an example:

A Winchester SX3 shotgun with it's choke tube out exceeds 20mm. (0.836" = 21.23mm)

View attachment 380443
Click to expand...

Boltgun said:
this video is the one mentioned in the CSSA blast....from Epps. Chock is smaller that the bore. different way around, prohib.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcGpz-2aBYk

Boltgun
Click to expand...

That video comes 4 Days after the CSSA lawyers letter. I don't agree with the ban but i also don't think one youtube video would classify measuring with the bore removed the "Forensic Standard". I just think we'll have to wait for a revision and put the arguing to rest.
 
JPriebe said:
That video comes 4 Days after the CSSA lawyers letter. I don't agree with the ban but i also don't think one youtube video would classify measuring with the bore removed the "Forensic Standard". I just think we'll have to wait for a revision and put the arguing to rest.
Click to expand...

regardless of what standard is used or where the barrel is measured.....one cannot argue that Bill Blair said - 12 and 10 shotguns are NOT banned. He flat out lied

Boltgun
 
JPriebe said:
That video comes 4 Days after the CSSA lawyers letter. I don't agree with the ban but i also don't think one youtube video would classify measuring with the bore removed the "Forensic Standard". I just think we'll have to wait for a revision and put the arguing to rest.
Click to expand...

How do you remove the bore?

Lol... I know what you meant...

It's all been covered in multiple threads...
Let's just say... no matter which way they go you can find a shotgun that exceeds 20mm as evidenced by the Epps video...
 
ctw said:
We do not fire those weapons without the choke in so that sounds a little odd
Click to expand...

I don't fire my Ar10 without my muzzle brake being affixed with rockset and a jam nut on so why doesn't it count towards the barrel length??? BECAUSE THATS THE LAW!
 
It’s always a rule that the examination is done in the state that would be closest to it’s original state, minus any attachments or things easily removed.

For example- a barrel measurement does not include a muzzle device, because the device can be removed as soon as you leave the store which might bring the barrel length out of compliance. The choke can extend beyond the end of the barrel, and it doesn’t count towards barrel length either, as it can be removed.

There’s no reason the same would not apply to bore diameter. If I designed a screw in choke to a mortar tube that brought it down to 19.99mm- that doesn’t make it legal- because it can just be unscrewed.
 
Mds694 said:
Where does the law/IOC say its prohibited? No one has legitimately answered this.
Click to expand...

Here is a quote from the latest CSSA email

This morning, the RCMP confirmed the first 12-gauge shotgun prohibited under the new Order-in-Council.

The deadly evil weapon? An old Iver Johnson single-shot, fixed choke 12-gauge shotgun with a 2 3/4" chamber. That's right, a standard old farm gun.

RCMP Technical Unit Supervisor, Tim Hobbs, confirmed this firearm would be classified as prohibited in a phone call with a prominent firearms dealer.
 
Some folks really need to get their heads out of their @$$. The law is, what the law states. It doesnt matter how an individual interprets it. The liberal governments end goal is to remove ALL firearms from licensed guns owners, get your $#!+ together.
 
CosmiC10R said:
How do you remove the bore?

Lol... I know what you meant...

It's all been covered in multiple threads...
Let's just say... no matter which way they go you can find a shotgun that exceeds 20mm as evidenced by the Epps video...
Click to expand...

Lol yes. I am illiterate. I meant choke.
 
Bobbum Man said:
Here is a quote from the latest CSSA email

This morning, the RCMP confirmed the first 12-gauge shotgun prohibited under the new Order-in-Council.

The deadly evil weapon? An old Iver Johnson single-shot, fixed choke 12-gauge shotgun with a 2 3/4" chamber. That's right, a standard old farm gun.

RCMP Technical Unit Supervisor, Tim Hobbs, confirmed this firearm would be classified as prohibited in a phone call with a prominent firearms dealer.
Click to expand...

Hohohohoho. Are we FINALLY going to see the rotten Fudds in Canada stand up with us? The ones who say things like “Oh, but I don’t have any of THOSE guns! Just so long as they don’t ban my hunting guns?” ?

Well now they ARE banning your innocent old hunting guns. So it’s time to grow up and scream loud with the rest of us, or turn them in.
 
Big Boss said:
Hohohohoho. Are we FINALLY going to see the rotten Fudds in Canada stand up with us? The ones who say things like “Oh, but I don’t have any of THOSE guns! Just so long as they don’t ban my hunting guns?” ?

Well now they ARE banning your innocent old hunting guns. So it’s time to grow up and scream loud with the rest of us, or turn them in.
Click to expand...

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/For-Immediate-Release---RCMP-Prohibits-first-12-Gauge-Shotgun-with-20mm-Bore-Law.html?soid=1124731702303&aid=0kYJWd-2OU8

I had a discussion at the local firearms store and was told there was a note from RCMP stating that removable choke shotgun as the law says are now prohib. I have not any link to evidence or seen any myself, however the individual i was speaking with is very reputable store operator here in Vancouver.
 
All the people like the "Retired Lawyer" that said the intent of the law disqualified 12 and 10 g shotguns and refused to believe that regardless of intent the law as written makes 12g shotguns with removable chokes banned. 4 days later here you go.
 
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