Trudeau's Gun Ban and Buy Back

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I thought Cam's last post was a little long winded but the "that is the liberal kettle calling the pot black, while wearing blackface," made it all worthwhile.
 
Ever wonder if Mr. Wolverine looks at page 70 of a thread he started and wonders at what point it all got away from him...?

Interesting points raised in this thread.
 
Cameron SS said:
Yes, the numbers are right there, they came from stats canada. And yet you keep presenting the numbers from a fake news article.

I definitely picked a single random country to illustrate a point. The point being that ALL of the numbers in your fake news article were subject to revision, and were in fact revised, which means the entire statistical basis of your article is flawed.

Further you have completely ignored all of the logical and philosophical issues with the argument presented in that article.

Namely that using foreign investment as a proxy for tax fraud is a big non sequitor.
And second, Statscan gets their data from CRA, which by definition means that the dollars we are talking about have been lawfully disclosed and taxed properly.

Its disingenuous to say that the Cons deny science. Its not that they don't believe in science, is that they have publicly decided to govern based on ideological beliefs, such as right and wrong. You may or may not like that system of governance, and personally I don't really like it either, but they are very open about it, and generally consistent. Contrast that with the Liberals, who CLAIM to be the party of science and evidence based policy making, and then judge them on their track record where they have basically failed in every single major policy area to live up to that principle. The least of all in the gun control realm.

Your meandering posts that avoid responding to direct criticism of your statements and attempts to change the channel to other issues where you make absolutely claims without evidence change subjects midstream or descend into ad hominem is indicative of a person who is trying to construct an argument to arrive at a predetermined position, rather than looking sincerely at evidence and going where the facts take you.

If you think that Andrew Scheer is a populist leader, then you should invest some money in a free online dictionary. He has many faults, but populism is not one of them. Again, that is the liberal kettle calling the pot black, while wearing blackface.

Normally I'd suffice to say this is classic millennialism and leave it at that. But since there is an election on, I can't help but point out that this is basically the same appeal to science while making ideological decisions that the liberals have repeatedly made, and I can see why you would feel so comfortable voting for them, despite the hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance. You are letting what FEELS true stand as a surrogate for whats actually real.

In any event, looking at the rest of your post, I'm reminded of one of the first things my philosophy professor taught me: Arguments presented without any evidence can similarly be dismissed without evidence. Given that most of your post reads as an uninformed rant, strangely devoid of any more fake news or contrived stats (curious for a self expressed scientist), I see no need to address the rest of it, other than to say, I agree that both Scheer and Trudeau will make an absolute mess of everything, but at least with Scheer, for the time being, I will legally own guns.

And as long as I own guns, no one can force me to do something against my will. The only way to get me to cooperate, is to convince, based on evidence, science, and sound reasoning. If you feel frustrated at your lack of ability to influence other's opinions, then you should re-examine what you have offered here and correct any deficiencies. I welcome you to try again.
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Have you thought about going into politics because you do a an excellent job of weaving misinformation into a cogent sounding argument. However, everything you say actually applies to your arguments. Of course CRA tries to track money moving offshore. Doesn't mean that it was all properly taxed. Can you provide evidence to back up that claim? Can you provide any evidence to back up your assertions? I have provided data from Sats Can. it doesn't take a PhD to nuderstand what it means.

Likewise, and since you have all the answers and legitimate information, perhaps you can explain what legitimate business reasons would prompt tens of billions of dollars to be moved to tiny countries such as Bardados or Luxembourg or the Cayman Isalnds? Countries whose main business is to act as tax shelter for rich individuals and corporations? What else could one possibly do with $70 billion in tiny countries like that?

You cherry picked one country that showed what you wanted it to and ignored the data from other countries. That is a logical fail. As for my other points, you asked about other issues and I listed them quickly as I have a job and a family and things to do beyond being on this forum so don't have time to write giant essays.

As for your comment about governing based in ideology based on right or wrong, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Guess it's ok for Saudi Arabia or Syria to govern as they do and murder their own citizens because by their ideology that is right? No. Ideology by it's very nature can be used to serve a portion of the population rather than the whole. Information, reason and data should inform good decision making. Ideology and "right or wrong" may play a role at times too but with many topics data should be a mjor driver. Is that not the case with the proposed gun ban? You all complain about the emotion and misinformation behind it. But you can pick and choose in other areas where ideology and emotion are ok? Yes, I actually get very angry when science deniers raise their ignorant and ill informed heads. It is the height of arrogance and a grave insult to the real experts who have dedicated years and decads of their lives to understanding topics. They are the ones we should listen to, not a bunch of fake media, usually right wing in the case of he climate change, or people who google stuff and come to conclusions. Ignoring the science will lead to grave consequences. Whether it's the environment or things like vaccination or GMOs or what have you. Popular media and people outside of the fields are not equipped or capable of interpreting or understanding the information and are driven by fear or emotion. They simply lack the knowledge base and experience to do so thus we must listen to the real experts. Insulting them is an insult to all rational people.

Finally, and again, what you all seem to be unable to grasp is that I am not a big fan of the Liberals either. I do take issue with the heavily biased and one sided views being bandied around here. Extreme ideological viewpoints are not going to promote progress or move us forward as a society. But I suppose it shouldn't surprise me that this is simply an echo chamber for an ideological majority in this community to re-enforce your own biases and positions without a desire or ability to be objective about the big picture.
 
RK99 said:
Have you thought about going into politics because you do a an excellent job of weaving misinformation into a cogent sounding argument. However, everything you say actually applies to your arguments. Of course CRA tries to track money moving offshore. Doesn't mean that it was all properly taxed. Can you provide evidence to back up that claim? Can you provide any evidence to back up your assertions? I have provided data from Sats Can. it doesn't take a PhD to nuderstand what it means.

Likewise, and since you have all the answers and legitimate information, perhaps you can explain what legitimate business reasons would prompt tens of billions of dollars to be moved to tiny countries such as Bardados or Luxembourg or the Cayman Isalnds? Countries whose main business is to act as tax shelter for rich individuals and corporations? What else could one possibly do with $70 billion in tiny countries like that?

You cherry picked one country that showed what you wanted it to and ignored the data from other countries. That is a logical fail. As for my other points, you asked about other issues and I listed them quickly as I have a job and a family and things to do beyond being on this forum so don't have time to write giant essays.

As for your comment about governing based in ideology based on right or wrong, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Guess it's ok for Saudi Arabia or Syria to govern as they do and murder their own citizens because by their ideology that is right? No. Ideology by it's very nature can be used to serve a portion of the population rather than the whole. Information, reason and data should inform good decision making. Ideology and "right or wrong" may play a role at times too but with many topics data should be a mjor driver. Is that not the case with the proposed gun ban? You all complain about the emotion and misinformation behind it. But you can pick and choose in other areas where ideology and emotion are ok? Yes, I actually get very angry when science deniers raise their ignorant and ill informed heads. It is the height of arrogance and a grave insult to the real experts who have dedicated years and decads of their lives to understanding topics. They are the ones we should listen to, not a bunch of fake media, usually right wing in the case of he climate change, or people who google stuff and come to conclusions. Ignoring the science will lead to grave consequences. Whether it's the environment or things like vaccination or GMOs or what have you. Popular media and people outside of the fields are not equipped or capable of interpreting or understanding the information and are driven by fear or emotion. They simply lack the knowledge base and experience to do so thus we must listen to the real experts. Insulting them is an insult to all rational people.

Finally, and again, what you all seem to be unable to grasp is that I am not a big fan of the Liberals either. I do take issue with the heavily biased and one sided views being bandied around here. Extreme ideological viewpoints are not going to promote progress or move us forward as a society. But I suppose it shouldn't surprise me that this is simply an echo chamber for an ideological majority in this community to re-enforce your own biases and positions without a desire or ability to be objective about the big picture.
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Priceless.
WRT off shore accounts and what the money is doing there, please ask your friends in the LPC. They and their cronies seem to be big users.
WRT science deniers, I assume you are outraged right now that the one party running on a platform of absolutely ignoring the science and facts of the situation is once again the LPC. When even the Chiefs of Police tell them they are on the wrong track, they double down.
 
HemiTO said:
Sorry sir, but I'm pretty sure you have your political parties mixed up and you're thinking about the PPC (People's Party of Canada) and not the CPC (Conservative Party of Canada).
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It was Maxime Bernier of the now PPC who left the Govt Documents at his girl friends place, but all that aside voting for him means not supporting the only true rival to Justin Trudeau's plans. If you don't vote conservative, which is your choice, you vote split and give Trudeau and the Liberals a win which when in comes to your service rifle, a 150 + plus year old safe and honorable past time in Canada, you get on your knees and assume the position

After belittling one discriminated minority with colored people Trudeau last week; faced with a storm threw another discriminated minority in firearms owners under the bus. Its multiple choice which minority people like that will go after; the flavor of the day. It tells me that Trudeau and what he described as his privileged background only sees minorities as quaint silly people that he can either mock, throw under the bus and walk in and take want he wants from them and do as he pleases. He and others can also demonize a minority at whim, which tells me it is not in his DNA to relate to any minority, unless it is self serving. It makes no difference if you are a firearms owner, black, native, LGBT, Chinese, Japanese, Muslim these are the same tactics used to discriminate. I am none of these other things and as a WASP- White Anglo Saxon Protestant growing up I was always aware of what it is like to be a minority in Canada and as firearms owner I don't relate what it is to have white privilege either
 
Shooting Centre said:
Priceless.
WRT off shore accounts and what the money is doing there, please ask your friends in the LPC. They and their cronies seem to be big users.
WRT science deniers, I assume you are outraged right now that the one party running on a platform of absolutely ignoring the science and facts of the situation is once again the LPC. When even the Chiefs of Police tell them they are on the wrong track, they double down.
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See, this is the problem with all the replies and comments. None of you seem to be able to comprehend what I am saying. I am not a fan of the Liberals either. My point is this and I'll post it in all caps so maybe it will sink in:

BOTH THE LIBERALS AND THE CONSERVATIVES HAVE A TERRIBLE TRACK RECORD ON MANY ISSUES. THEY ARE BOTH EQUALLY CORRUPT AND BOTH HAVE PRACTICED CRONY POLITICS AND ENRICHED THEMSELVES AND THEIR FRIENDS. BOTH HAVE PUT THE INTERESTS OF THE MIDDLE CLASS AND AVERAGE CANADIANS BEHIND THOSE OF LOBBYISTS AND BIG BUSINESS. BOTH HAVE IGNORED DATA AND SCIENCE WHEN THEY WANTED TO ADVANCE THEIR AGENDAS. I TAKE ISSUE WITH THE ROSY EYED VIEW MANY HAVE HERE THAT THE CONSERVATIVES HOLD SOME MORAL AND ETHICAL HIGH GROUND OVER THE LIBERALS. THEY ARE BOTH TERRIBLE IN SOME SIMILAR AND SOME DIFFERENT WAYS. ITS HYPOCRISY TO CALL OUT ONE PARTY WITHOUT RECOGNIZING THE FAILINGS OF THE OTHER.

Now with that out of the way, I have also stated several times that I think the gun ban is dumb and flawed. But I think it's also important to look at the overall policies of those seekingt to run our country. Seems like nobody here is willing or able to have a real discussion about that. I guess I also see a different path forward that differs form the majority of members here.
 
RK99 said:
See, this is the problem with all the replies and comments. None of you seem to be able to comprehend what I am saying. I am not a fan of the Liberals either. My point is this and I'll post it in all caps so maybe it will sink in:

BOTH THE LIBERALS AND THE CONSERVATIVES HAVE A TERRIBLE TRACK RECORD ON MANY ISSUES. THEY ARE BOTH EQUALLY CORRUPT AND BOTH HAVE PRACTICED CRONY POLITICS AND ENRICHED THEMSELVES AND THEIR FRIENDS. BOTH HAVE PUT THE INTERESTS OF THE MIDDLE CLASS AND AVERAGE CANADIANS BEHIND THOSE OF LOBBYISTS AND BIG BUSINESS. BOTH HAVE IGNORED DATA AND SCIENCE WHEN THEY WANTED TO ADVANCE THEIR AGENDAS. I TAKE ISSUE WITH THE ROSY EYED VIEW MANY HAVE HERE THAT THE CONSERVATIVES HOLD SOME MORAL AND ETHICAL HIGH GROUND OVER THE LIBERALS. THEY ARE BOTH TERRIBLE IN SOME SIMILAR AND SOME DIFFERENT WAYS. ITS HYPOCRISY TO CALL OUT ONE PARTY WITHOUT RECOGNIZING THE FAILINGS OF THE OTHER.

Now with that out of the way, I have also stated several times that I think the gun ban is dumb and flawed. But I think it's also important to look at the overall policies of those seekingt o run our country. Seems like nobody here is willing or able to have a real discussion about that. I guess I also see a different path forward that differs form the majority of members here.
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Yes, you keep trying to state that you are somehow more rational than most of us here. But your comments show you actually believe a lot of the Liberal BS and anti CPC propaganda. Of course all political parties are far from perfect. However only one party with a chance to actually win this election is not actively promoting idiotic plans that trample people's rights. The other party that seems to have a good chance at winning is run by a raving lunatic who alternately spends his time in black face and calling others racist. He has also demonstrated a real preference for corruption, over spending and lying. It's really hard to pick and choose between those options.
 
rajczak_kashka said:
And that’s why the Turd won’t release the costs till well after the election cause the social justice warrior class who vote Libs knew the true costs of a “buy back” they may balk.
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I don't think they will spend billions. I think they know this is not popular so they will say we are putting forth $500, 000 for the buy back. The first people to turn in their firearms will get reimbursed, everyone else will be SOL. Might not work out that way but I wouldn't put anything past politicians.
 
Isn’t referencing the Dunning Kruger effect actually becoming a sign that one is likely suffering from it?

RK99:

Seriously, and I know tone is hard to read in text but l say this without spite. You may have come to recreational shooting and firearms ownership recently, and I wish that well intentioned polite letter writing was effective. But I have done the same since the mid 90’s and hold no optimism that it is an effective tool politically.

This leaves me with acting at the polls to ensure in my small part that the LPC is not re elected.

As we seem to hold similar positions that most politicians are opportunistic and self serving regardless of party affiliation, then perhaps you can walk through the preposition that the LPC will ignore arguments against their proposed legislation no matter how well reasoned. They will view the issue only in terms of benefit to them-hence withholding a public statement on their historically well established party positions on gun control until it served as a useful distraction from our PM once again playing Mr Dressup.

You are of course free to re elect the LPC in the hopes they will reverse their stated position on the matter, or live in the hopes that your specific firearms will be spared.

I have a dog in this fight via pistol and AR ownership, and just don’t have faith in hoping the LPC will reverse course after a potential re election. I have also seen the LPC at the forefront of every significant tightening of gun legislation in this country over several decades.
 
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RK99 said:
See, this is the problem with all the replies and comments. None of you seem to be able to comprehend what I am saying. I am not a fan of the Liberals either. My point is this and I'll post it in all caps so maybe it will sink in:

BOTH THE LIBERALS AND THE CONSERVATIVES HAVE A TERRIBLE TRACK RECORD ON MANY ISSUES. THEY ARE BOTH EQUALLY CORRUPT AND BOTH HAVE PRACTICED CRONY POLITICS AND ENRICHED THEMSELVES AND THEIR FRIENDS. BOTH HAVE PUT THE INTERESTS OF THE MIDDLE CLASS AND AVERAGE CANADIANS BEHIND THOSE OF LOBBYISTS AND BIG BUSINESS. BOTH HAVE IGNORED DATA AND SCIENCE WHEN THEY WANTED TO ADVANCE THEIR AGENDAS. I TAKE ISSUE WITH THE ROSY EYED VIEW MANY HAVE HERE THAT THE CONSERVATIVES HOLD SOME MORAL AND ETHICAL HIGH GROUND OVER THE LIBERALS. THEY ARE BOTH TERRIBLE IN SOME SIMILAR AND SOME DIFFERENT WAYS. ITS HYPOCRISY TO CALL OUT ONE PARTY WITHOUT RECOGNIZING THE FAILINGS OF THE OTHER.

Now with that out of the way, I have also stated several times that I think the gun ban is dumb and flawed. But I think it's also important to look at the overall policies of those seekingt to run our country. Seems like nobody here is willing or able to have a real discussion about that. I guess I also see a different path forward that differs form the majority of members here.
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a vote for any party other than conservative is a kiss of death to gun owners. be proud.
 
Wolverine .303 said:
Mr. Wolverine and I try to read everything that posted. Myself more than Mr. W as of late as retirement is suppose to include some retirement or so he was told..
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I would wonder if it was more "ordered" that told. Written by a lawyer so there are very few escape clauses perhaps? Domestic 99 probably involved in some way.

Peter
 
RK99 said:
See, this is the problem with all the replies and comments. None of you seem to be able to comprehend what I am saying. I am not a fan of the Liberals either. My point is this and I'll post it in all caps so maybe it will sink in:

BOTH THE LIBERALS AND THE CONSERVATIVES HAVE A TERRIBLE TRACK RECORD ON MANY ISSUES. THEY ARE BOTH EQUALLY CORRUPT AND BOTH HAVE PRACTICED CRONY POLITICS AND ENRICHED THEMSELVES AND THEIR FRIENDS. BOTH HAVE PUT THE INTERESTS OF THE MIDDLE CLASS AND AVERAGE CANADIANS BEHIND THOSE OF LOBBYISTS AND BIG BUSINESS. BOTH HAVE IGNORED DATA AND SCIENCE WHEN THEY WANTED TO ADVANCE THEIR AGENDAS. I TAKE ISSUE WITH THE ROSY EYED VIEW MANY HAVE HERE THAT THE CONSERVATIVES HOLD SOME MORAL AND ETHICAL HIGH GROUND OVER THE LIBERALS. THEY ARE BOTH TERRIBLE IN SOME SIMILAR AND SOME DIFFERENT WAYS. ITS HYPOCRISY TO CALL OUT ONE PARTY WITHOUT RECOGNIZING THE FAILINGS OF THE OTHER.

Now with that out of the way, I have also stated several times that I think the gun ban is dumb and flawed. But I think it's also important to look at the overall policies of those seekingt to run our country. Seems like nobody here is willing or able to have a real discussion about that. I guess I also see a different path forward that differs form the majority of members here.
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Triggered NPC
 
Next they will be putting conservatives in gulags, I'm not joking. These are hardcore bolsheviks, we have seen this movie a thousand times. They are coming to kill, steal and destroy. What will you do?
 
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