True or False: subsonic pistol ammo out of a carbine will not make you deaf...

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superlative

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Apparently subsonic ammo out of a carbine is about 140db (eg. 147gr 9mm). By comparison, a 9mm 115gr out of a handgun is about 160db. A .223 out of a carbine is also 160db. Every 10db represents a doubling of loudness, so the handgun/223 rifle is "4x louder" than the pistol carbine shooting subsonic ammo, supposedly.

Now 140db is definitely at the loudness level to cause damage, but significantly less damage than a 223 rifle.

My question is: in real life - what is your experience with shooting subsonic pistol ammo out of a carbine? I've heard some people say it's surprisingly quiet (compared to a rifle round out of a rifle), and some people say there's no difference.

What is your experience?
 
the db scale is logarithmic. 10db represents a 1000% or 10 times in increase/decrease in sound intensity level. 3db is a doubling or halving.

that said, I always wear ear muffs, i think any firearm will make you deaf eventually. how loud something is perceived also depends a lot of other factors.
 
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superlative said:
Apparently subsonic ammo out of a carbine is about 140db (eg. 147gr 9mm). By comparison, a 9mm 115gr out of a handgun is about 160db. A .223 out of a carbine is also 160db. Every 10db represents a doubling of loudness, so the handgun/223 rifle is "4x louder" than the pistol carbine shooting subsonic ammo, supposedly.

Now 140db is definitely at the loudness level to cause damage, but significantly less damage than a 223 rifle.

My question is: in real life - what is your experience with shooting subsonic pistol ammo out of a carbine? I've heard some people say it's surprisingly quiet (compared to a rifle round out of a rifle), and some people say there's no difference.

What is your experience?
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depends on the load. jacketed factory subsonic 9mm ammo is still usually over 1000fps. Sub sonic yes, but not very "quiet". On the other hand, cast projectiles running 7-800 fps from a lever gun....I fart louder than those. The issue you will run into when loading very slow is reliable cycling in a semi auto, if it cycles them at all. Levers, bolts and pumps will take it all. My favorite load for a Marlin 1894 in 44Mag is a pure lead 240gr cast bullet at 700ish fps. quiet and fun to shoot.
 
I like my ears. They don't grow back.

As a result I always wear ear-pro when anyone around me is pulling a trigger. And if I'm the guy pulling the trigger I tend to double up.

Only thing I'll shoot without is the suppressed .22s that are so popular down south.
 
False.
Just because the crack is not so loud that your hearing is instantly lost and you feel off balance. Does not mean you are not doing major damage to your hearing.
 
It won't make you deaf quite as fast, but it'll still get you there in the end.


The problem with subjective experience based on how loud something seems to a given person is that there are many factors to consider. Lots of tough guys around here seem to say that .308 Win has "no recoil" because they're all used to shooting .50BMG and stuff. Likewise, lots of guys say it's fine to shoot .22 with no hearing protection because they've already amassed years worth of hearing damage. I say that Howard Leight Impact Sport muffs are fine for shooting my 9mm handgun indoors, but that's just how it "seems" to me likely as a product of my pre-existing hearing damage.

FYI tinnitus, the persistent ringing that you get in your ears that sounds like the government's beaming mind control rays into your head, really, really sucks. Protect your ears. All day, every day, "Eeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" like some demonic electrical feedback loop.

It might not get you today, or maybe not even this year, but eventually you'll be one of the guys who looks around and says "You kids have horrible taste in music, everything sounded much better on vinyl." and then come to the horrible realization that it's not the music and the speakers that have gone to crap, it's your ears. I've noticed it myself. Ten years ago I would be listening to music at about 20% volume on my headset. These days it's closer to 50% and it "seems" the same. Maybe another ten years and I'll be one of those obnoxious guys blasting my headset loud enough that people on the other side of the room can hear what I'm listening to.

If I had access to proper equipment, I'd do a study on objective measurements of how loud gunfire actually is. Suputin's probably beat me to it though.
 
Stevebot-7 said:
FYI tinnitus, the persistent ringing that you get in your ears that sounds like the government's beaming mind control rays into your head, really, really sucks. Protect your ears. All day, every day, "Eeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" like some demonic electrical feedback loop.
.
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Yes, but in cases
 
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superlative said:
Yes, but in cases where you're suddenly attacked by a deadly rabid raccoons, there may be higher priorities than reaching for hearing protection. Obviously when you're not in those situations, then you would wear hearing protection. But I'm thinking that the pistol carbine would cause the least hearing damage whilst still be quite effective against rabid raccoons.
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Unless you face rabid raccoons on a regular basis, I wouldn't worry about it. The permanent effects of having to deal with 1 or 2 rabid raccoons (multiple shots each) once in a lifetime would be so minimal as to not concern me...if I'm faced with a situation that you suggest, the minimal hearing damage done would be the least of my worries.
 
I can tell you that .22LR CCI Quiet from a 20" lever gun can't be heard more than about 50 feet away. I've fired those indoors with no ear pro at all. Of course, I'm also old and my wife will tell you how deaf I am.

:ar15:
 
I know that 45 acp out of the Thureon Defense carbine I had was very, very quiet. I guess a low pressure cartridge in an 18.5" barrel makes for a quiet rifle.
 
I shoot .22LR all the time without hearing protection provided I am in an open space an my back stop is farther then 50 yards away from me, really not much louder then a cap gun then.

I know its not the best for me but I just personally do not care.
 
Question and I've always wonderednsince we're on the topic of gun, ammo and hearing loss. And maybe someone with some military experience can chime in but how do our infantryman cope with this exact problem? Do they have a specialized hearing protection to muffle gun fire but not impede their operational awareness?
 
Skin said:
Question and I've always wonderednsince we're on the topic of gun, ammo and hearing loss. And maybe someone with some military experience can chime in but how do our infantryman cope with this exact problem? Do they have a specialized hearing protection to muffle gun fire but not impede their operational awareness?
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They practice with muffs. But on a mission they fire away when necessary, hearing loss is just an occupational hazard, not much that can be done about it. they need to have their ears free so they can hear guys sneaking up on them, deaf is better than dead.
 
sharpish said:
They practice with muffs. But on a mission they fire away when necessary, hearing loss is just an occupational hazard, not much that can be done about it. they need to have their ears free so they can hear guys sneaking up on them, deaf is better than dead.
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That's what people advise.
 
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Skin said:
Question and I've always wonderednsince we're on the topic of gun, ammo and hearing loss. And maybe someone with some military experience can chime in but how do our infantryman cope with this exact problem? Do they have a specialized hearing protection to muffle gun fire but not impede their operational awareness?
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the brain seems to shut off loud noises under stress, the scene from saving pvt. ryan was so lauded because it showed this effect on film. on combat by dave grossman cites numerous police reports, and military experiences where cops would fire on an assailant and vividly hear their cases hitting walls or pavement, but not hearing the rounds go off, or soldiers would hear the rifle cycle, but not go off. one case involved a cop who remembered drawing his pistol and seeing the guy get hit and fall, and turned around to see who had fired because he didnt feel his pistol recoil or hear it fire.
 
scott585 said:
the brain seems to shut off loud noises under stress, the scene from saving pvt. ryan was so lauded because it showed this effect on film. on combat by dave grossman cites numerous police reports, and military experiences where cops would fire on an assailant and vividly hear their cases hitting walls or pavement, but not hearing the rounds go off, or soldiers would hear the rifle cycle, but not go off. one case involved a cop who remembered drawing his pistol and seeing the guy get hit and fall, and turned around to see who had fired because he didnt feel his pistol recoil or hear it fire.
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Auditory Exclusion. Stuff gets weird in an adrenaline dump. First time it happened to me I thought I was dying. Ended up in the hallway outside the gym, and it took me a good day or two to remember how I got outside.

I don't know if any studies have been done to determine if it has any effect on chronic or acute hearing damage. I'd hazard a guess to say it doesn't prevent the damage. Polite society apparently frowns upon blitz attacking people, even if they are volunteers.
 
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