Trying a quick neck turning method

[MartyK2500]

After giving it some thought, I believe this is the quickest way around neck turning.
Got 2x K&M neck turners and a bench vise, case holder and power drill.
Turned a few necks and this is really quick so far.

In the next few days I’ll have a bigger sample of neck turned cases and a few loaded rounds.
We’ll see what impact this shortcut has on neck thickness variation and runout.

 

[Munkey1973]

I've never used a K&M turner, but I if was, then I would say that is way to do it.
Couldn't imagine imagine holding one of those assembly's by hand while trying to turn even 20 necks.
I am getting a bit arthritic as I approach 50.

Judging from what I've seen from your other posts, I'd say your the kind of consumer will to pay for quality.
Have you ever looked into the 21st Century Turning Lathe ?

I bought one direct from them many years ago and second only to the 120i and autotrickler 3 I got last spring it one of the best tools I bought value for dollar. I turn a piece of brass and measure it a good Mitou ball calipers (just like in the video below) I get the exact same thickness everywhere on the necks on each piece of brass... no half thousands just the same number. Probably because the shaft is supported on the other end of the lathe... and the knuckle allows the case to float the right way.

They started making them now with their own power source, but I use a Ryobi cordless screwdriver (and bought 2 extra batteries) that has the recommended 200 RPM speed. The guy in this video is using a drill and spinning it way too fast.

If I bought one now I would stick with the model I have, because their power source calves its guts 5 years after purchase the whole unit is useless... where as I an always buy another cordless screwdriver for $70.

This British chap is bit chatty, but it shows how easy and efficient it works.
I was sold after I watched this as he quoted my favourite mantra "buy once, cry once"

 

[MartyK2500]

Yeah I have seen them and they look pretty sweet.
To be honest, they are next in line if I don’t like results from my K&M.
When researching, I was looking for as quick as possible, and this seemed to be the way, but if the quality of brass is not enough I’ll go to the next method in line (which was 21st century).

So far, my K&M seems to cut better than my Forster, so even when holding it by hand it was effortless.
But being totally free floating and lacking suppot, we’ll see if I can manage straight cuts.

 

[Maple57]

You are better off to hold the neck turner in your hand than clamp it to something.

When you have runout when the case is chucked, you will be better off to let the neck turner float with it than fight it.

Sinclair Intl used to sell a nice case holder... Not sure if they still do. It's pretty good, but Bob from Viper Bench Rests makes a larger knurled ring adapter for it that makes it easier to lock and unlock. Been using it for about 20 years. I don't see it on his web site but if you call him, he will probably make you one.

https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/neck-turning/neck-turning-accessories/neck-turning-caseholders-prod33962.aspx

 

[257Wby]

Try adding a die lock ring to the case holder ...

 

[Rookie{OMC}]

You are better off to hold the neck turner in your hand than clamp it to something.

When you have runout when the case is chucked, you will be better off to let the neck turner float with it than fight it.

Sinclair Intl used to sell a nice case holder... Not sure if they still do. It's pretty good, but Bob from Viper Bench Rests makes a larger knurled ring adapter for it that makes it easier to lock and unlock. Been using it for about 20 years. I don't see it on his web site but if you call him, he will probably make you one.

https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/neck-turning/neck-turning-accessories/neck-turning-caseholders-prod33962.aspx

Maple57

I totally agree with you on letting the cutter float in your hand.

I have a shell holder,but I found it to be a pain in the butt to use. Now all I use is a 1/2" keyless chuck cordless drill. Really sped things up and the cutter floats in your hand nicely.I have a 4" fan on the bench to park the neck turner in front of between cuts to keep temp down on the mandrel & cutter.

 

[Trevor60]

If you are looking to do volume and hand turning is not for you...get a vertical press.


Set your turner in the chuck you can adjust the down stroke to your desired depth
get a lock collet to secure the brass.
use the proper lub. the biggest fight for consistent necks is controlling the mandrel heat.
Given the volume of brass you want to turn in a short period of time i would suggest Lithium grease inside and out. I have tested the wd40 spray white lithium with good results, the odour prevents me from using it in the house. (water vs oil based is a big discussion).

I still turn my necks by hand using a hand drill and a pumpkin; lubricant is transmission fluid. take HOURS
I control temperature by using a block of aluminum as a heat sink. after every pass i place the turner mandrel down on the block of aluminum.

Cheers
Trevor

 

[huntingfamily]

These help a bit with the smaller k&m profile..
https://x-reload.com/km-manteh.html

 

[RonR]

These help a bit with the smaller k&m profile..
https://x-reload.com/km-manteh.html

That's what I use as well. Helps quite a bit.

Regards
Ronr

 

[Munkey1973]

There is mention of mandrel temps, heat sinks, and interesting lubricants on this thread.

Do the K&Ms tend to heat up ...do they need higher RPMs to cut properly ?

I use Imperial Sizing Wax sparingly on my 21st expander mandrel and the cutting arbour (about every 5th case a quick wipe) and keep the around 200 RPM.
Heat has never be an issue.

With 223 once in while a I would start turning a piece that I missed annealing... the necks would spring back a bit after the expander die. So they would be a bit tight on the cutting mandrel in which I would give a drop of 3-in-1 oil on the arbour.

The Pumpkin in the Drill Press seems like a bad idea to me..... seems way too fast of an RPM

 

[MartyK2500]

Maple, you are right.
Just did a 10x round test.
10 in the vise, 10 off my hand.
Not only the 10 off my hand we’re even quicker to process, they yielded more constant results.

257wby
Thanks for sharing just did this and loving it!

Rookie
Your drill chuck does not marr the brass?

Hunting family
Buying this ASAP!

 

[MartyK2500]

There is mention of mandrel temps, heat sinks, and interesting lubricants on this thread.

Do the K&Ms tend to heat up ...do they need higher RPMs to cut properly ?

I use Imperial Sizing Wax sparingly on my 21st expander mandrel and the cutting arbour (about every 5th case a quick wipe) and keep the around 200 RPM.
Heat has never be an issue.

With 223 once in while a I would start turning a piece that I missed annealing... the necks would spring back a bit after the expander die. So they would be a bit tight on the cutting mandrel in which I would give a drop of 3-in-1 oil on the arbour.

The Pumpkin in the Drill Press seems like a bad idea to me..... seems way too fast of an RPM

Just did 10 rounds in my hand and didn’t heat up one bit.
Lot’s of heat may come from the pilot being too tight.
This is not my first bbq neck turning, did it thousands of times on a forster original trimmer lathe.
Having a nicely polished pilot, and left over graphite neck lube inside necks from expander sizing, let’s the pilot glide in without heating things up.

 

[Rookie{OMC}]

Maple, you are right.
Just did a 10x round test.
10 in the vise, 10 off my hand.
Not only the 10 off my hand we’re even quicker to process, they yielded more constant results.

257wby
Thanks for sharing just did this and loving it!

Rookie
Your drill chuck does not marr the brass?

Hunting family
Buying this ASAP!

No marring at all. I usually am only taking off a thou or two. Just to clean them up,and to stay on top of any donuts that are forming.

I don't crank on the chuck to tighten, the Milwaukee chuck when it's just snug it has like a click or an indent feel to it.That plenty to hold the brass for a light turning. Heavier turning a little more pressure on the chuck but no marring unless the cutter grabs the brass (too deep of a cut) and the chuck slips on the brass and then leaves a marring ring around the base.

I have the carbide cutting mandrels and I expand one case just before I turn it to keep the (if any) spring back to a minimum that decreases the tightness on the cutting mandrel.

I used lube on the mandrels when I was making 6.5 Creed brass from .308 back a couple years ago. More to turn off of them then. and I cranked on the chuck and still no marring unless the brass grabs and spins in the chuck.Then those go into the practice brass bin. lol

 

[Maple57]

One more little tick regarding the heat...

I have a small block of steel about 2 inches square and 1/2 inch thick, that I drilled a shallow hole in.

I put a few drops of oil in it.

Every time a chuck a case, I dip the neck into the dipper hole to get just the right amount of oil on the neck.

After several cases, I give the dipper hole a couple more drops.

Another trick for neck turning in volume is to use carbide mandrels, they don't gall and stick like the cheap tool steel ones supplied.. I have not found anything supplied by neck turning tool makers made out of carbide so I had them custom made. I have sets for both 223 and 308 in 0.0002" increments. I originally had some for 6 mm but sold those along with that rifle.

I use two neck turning tools, one for rough and one for finish. The finishing cutter will have a larger mandrel than the roughing cutter to compensate for expansion during the first pass.

I also use a Redding sizing die bushing as a Go/No Go gage to make sure the loaded rounds are not too tight. It works better than a micrometer because it checks the whole neck right into the shoulder.

 

[Rookie{OMC}]

One more little tick regarding the heat...

I have a small block of steel about 2 inches square and 1/2 inch thick, that I drilled a shallow hole in.

I put a few drops of oil in it.

Every time a chuck a case, I dip the neck into the dipper hole to get just the right amount of oil on the neck.

After several cases, I give the dipper hole a couple more drops.

Another trick for neck turning in volume is to use carbide mandrels, they don't gall and stick like the cheap tool steel ones supplied.. I have not found anything supplied by neck turning tool makers made out of carbide so I had them custom made. I have sets for both 223 and 308 in 0.0002" increments. I originally had some for 6 mm but sold those along with that rifle.

I use two neck turning tools, one for rough and one for finish. The finishing cutter will have a larger mandrel than the roughing cutter to compensate for expansion during the first pass.

I also use a Redding sizing die bushing as a Go/No Go gage to make sure the loaded rounds are not too tight. It works better than a micrometer because it checks the whole neck right into the shoulder.

I found these carbide ones,about 3x the price of steel. But totally worth it.
https://www.brownells.com/reloading.../carbide-neck-turning-mandrels-prod36422.aspx

 

[Maple57]

I found these carbide ones,about 3x the price of steel. But totally worth it.
https://www.brownells.com/reloading.../carbide-neck-turning-mandrels-prod36422.aspx

Awesome... Thanks for that.

 

[Trevor60]

There is mention of mandrel temps, heat sinks, and interesting lubricants on this thread.

Do the K&Ms tend to heat up ...do they need higher RPMs to cut properly ?

I use Imperial Sizing Wax sparingly on my 21st expander mandrel and the cutting arbour (about every 5th case a quick wipe) and keep the around 200 RPM.
Heat has never be an issue.

With 223 once in while a I would start turning a piece that I missed annealing... the necks would spring back a bit after the expander die. So they would be a bit tight on the cutting mandrel in which I would give a drop of 3-in-1 oil on the arbour.

The Pumpkin in the Drill Press seems like a bad idea to me..... seems way too fast of an RPM

The K&M and 21st are similar in design wouldn't show any difference in heat building up. The pumpkin and stiller have more mass behind them and heat up at a slower rate compared to the first two.

I pulled this from another site as he explained the relationship of speed and heat well

"There are two 'speed' to consider. First is the rotational speed of the case. The faster you spin it the more heat will be generated that will cause thermal expansion of the toolholder and the case (to a much lesser extent). The rotational speed you choose will be a compromise between controlling heat and reducing the time you spend making the cuts. The second speed is the rate that you feed the cutting tool along the neck. The faster you feed if the coarser the surface finish; if your rotational speed is very slow and feed rate high you would be essentially cutting threads. I turn necks at about 150 rpm and feed the tool at a rate that gives a very fine finish which translates to about 4-5 seconds in and then out when turning a neck the length of .308, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 x55."

I tried the ice water method and didn't like the results as much as the aluminum block. it was dryer and with the mandrel touching the block drew out the heat.
I use carbide mandrels for expanding and turning

With proper cutting lube / fluid using a vertical press, mill or lathe all achieve the desired results at a much higher volume.

Mill in action

Cheers
Trevor

P.S.

I found these carbide ones,about 3x the price of steel. But totally worth it.
https://www.brownells.com/reloading.../carbide-neck-turning-mandrels-prod36422.aspx

You should check to make sure these carbide mandrels work in your K&M turner.
All Carbide mandrels are ground to .002" under bullet diameter. Adjustments on our NT-4000 turning tool will be more consistent with carbide mandrels due to the tighter tolerances of the mandrels.