Turkish shotguns the anti Christ of Uplands

Like any nascent developing industry locale, it usually takes a while for production to both align with the markets expectations and to work the bugs out. This doesn’t happen just with guns.

I don’t have any Turkish guns but I spend a lot of time of the DoubleGun forums and the general membership over there is pretty damn knowledgeable and experienced with quality doubles. Many members own the Dickenson brand, I think from Asus but don’t quote me, and that gun is universally admired but for heavy trigger pulls that are easily adjusted by a competent smith.

I chuckle at thread after thread started by people who bought a CHEAP new Turkish gun, especially semis and are then asking for help when it breaks down for some reason. You get what you pay for in guns, regardless of where they are made. Lower labour costs help but high labour cost locales compete by increasing automation. One way or another, if you want a good gun, and you insist on buying new, you are going to have to pay for it.
 
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I would suggest getting a shotgun with reputation and parts support.

I have 2 Perazzi TM1's from the 70's and just ordered from Perazzi Canada:

1 hammer coil spring
1 locking block (coming in on next shipment from Italy)
2 firing pins
2 firing pin springs
2 hammer leaf springs
1 top lever return spring inner and outer

These will be spare parts for when I need it.

Here's a scenario I gave to my friend who said shotguns are expensive.

Buy a Citori CXT trap gun for $4000. Good for 100,00 rounds? with some needed parts.

100,000 rounds is 4000 rounds of trap.

A round of trap at my club (shells + price to play) = $16

4000 rounds of trap is $64,000, the gun cost only $4000
 
I have a tristar that i cant sell because of the multitude of issues it has and i value my trader rating and reputation.
That said ive had a turkish semi auto hit nearly 50 000 rounds in just shy of 3 years. 2 broken bolt locks but parts were shipped free and arrived in mere days. Pays to buy from a reputable dealer
I have 3 huglus. A sxs 410 200ac. A sxs20ga 202b which sees an ever increasing shot count. And a 20ga ou 103fe with grade 3 walnut. I also own a 12ga ou dickinson with stunning true bone case coloring. That gun although heavy is flawless piece. I hunt and skeet shoot with all my doubles and semis.
Brands to be aware of khan and kral. Theyre like chiappa. The older tristars are junk. The newer ones seem to hold up better.
Cz are lawyer approved versions of huglus with heavy triggers
Huglus some of the best guns for the price. My 3 all have nice smooth crisp light triggers
Churchills have a good reputation
Canucks are hit and miss. My regulator needed warrenty but was returned fixed in a decent turn around time and has been flawless in operation since
In the race to the bottom there will be junk and there will be good buys for the money
Running the local skeet range i see alot of various guns being used and having friends from various circles i can directly compare price groups and brands.
Turkey has a low cost labour force. They will be the number 1 source of exports untill their labour market costs to much. Then the bulk of export will move to a cheaper region and we will be #####ing about cheap quality from that country. Itialian gubs were once thought of as cheap now they dominate the ou and semi market. Birmingham was the same. Then came the spanish. Lots of cheap stuff was made that was cheap but out of that some great makers emerged and make high grade guns that rival the best british guns.
Is a 1500 dollar huglu comparable to a holland royal. No of course not. But the average shooter and hunter can afford a huglu and shoot and hunt with a nice sxs and i believe the huglu will stand up. Yes as mentioned the case coloring will fade with use. My 202b shows a small amount of fading on the edges where i carry it. Bug spray and miles of walking thru brush has left the sharper edges a nice grey
As for baikal i own a ij58 in which ive put over 75000 rounds thru anx it is still tight on face. The only issue is the metal hook that holds the forend has worn and is rediculously sharp now which led to very minor play in the forend. I paid $375 for it and i could still likely get almost that out of it. That is what id say is good value. Even though i have much nicer guns i still reach for that heavy old baikal for everything from sporting clays to skeet to waterfowl amd farm pheasants
 
Bryben has summed up the current situation perfectly. You can no longer lump all Turkish guns together. To get good value one must educate oneself. And there will be another Turkey in our future that some people will complain about. I remember when Made in Japan was a slur on the product. All products. It's the natural progression of the (relatively) free market.
 
Have a Huglu 202b side by side, and couldn't be happier. Fit and finish are fantastic, and the removable chokes make it a no brainer. I've long been a fan of the north American classics, but this Huglu gives you the function along with the form.

Mixed with a 5 year warranty and Canadian representation, you've got a practical working shotgun.
 
I'm big into Italian made doubles.
Had always found the Turkish guns gross...

I handled a Akkar Churchill 528 and decided to give it a shot.
I have been surprisingly Very pleased!
Would HIGHLY recommend the Akkar Churchill lineup.

No exaggeration, I enjoy hunting with the Akkar Churchill more than my Fausti DEA...., I know, crazy eh.
 
alltieear said:
I had a tristar branded Turkish over under that served me well. Bottom barrel was a bit picky on ammo; challenger hulls failed to eject. And the action was pretty stiff.Didn't disintegrate in my hands, no light strikes and I shot it pretty well. I put around 2500 to 3000 shots through it no issues.

But I did sell it and now use a beretta for better fit, finish and durability (?). Durability is still a question as the Turkish firearms are relatively new and not used by any high volume shooters that I know of. Maybe someone with the time and money can test it.
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Good that it didn't have any issues.....:confused:
 
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The Turk guns are a bit like goods contracted to the Chinese to manufacture. Those items are built to a price point, they can make them cheap for the client or if the client wants to pay more then they can make better quality. Bottom line is that you get what you pay for and cheap goods should not be expected to have the same quality as ones costing more money.
 
Falconflyer said:
The Turk guns are a bit like goods contracted to the Chinese to manufacture. Those items are built to a price point, they can make them cheap for the client or if the client wants to pay more then they can make better quality. Bottom line is that you get what you pay for and cheap goods should not be expected to have the same quality as ones costing more money.
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Bingo!
 
canvasback said:
Bingo!
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I agree 100% however there is a line of diminishing returns in everything.
Huglu makes a great gun for the money if used as a hunting gun or an occasional clay gun. In better words a field gun for field use. Paying 3x as much will get you a better name and possibly better resale. An aya #1 is said to be built as good as the holland royal its copied from. 17000 vs 95000. Is there really a new 4x4 trucks cost difference? Some would say yes. Others maybe not. I do agree bottom end prices reflect lesser quality but some brands are creating a good competition amoung the big names by using a cheaper labour force.
Those with deep enough pockets it doesnt affect but for the family man working thru life great guns can be had for reasonable money when compared to the best names
 
Byron, it’s the law of diminishing returns. The Holland costs that much more than the AYA because getting that last 2% of improved quality is exponentially harder. And there are people for whom the extra money is immaterial.

But going from say $800 to $2500 buys you a better made, longer lasting gun every time. The question becomes is that extra money worth it depending on what is expected of the gun.

Of course, within the market for lower priced guns, like any market, there are going to be some companies that do it better than others. That’s why I think one can no longer (as the thread title suggests) lump all Turkish guns together. Some brands are still crap for the money while others are starting to distinguish themselves in the value for money equation. You yourself are experiencing that.

An extension of this topic but probably deserving of its own thread, is a discussion of which Turkish brands are doing a good job in creating product in the different shotgun categories. Semis, pumps, O/U and SxS. Who are the standouts and why and who sucks and why.

BTW, my safe contains a Purdey and a Sauer sidelock. The Sauer I bought for $450. The Purdey, well it’s worth a bit more. But take the locks off and inspect the workmanship……not a lot of difference. The Purdey is a more complicated design….self opening etc…..but the fit and finish of the metal work of the Sauer is certainly competitive with the Purdey. It’s why I like the used market. Buy the gun, not the name.
 
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Yildiz is marketing a sporting gun that is a copy of the perazzi mx8 and it’s priced close to 5k in Canadian peso’s. it defies logic that anyone could spend that much money on a Turkish gun when you could buy a beretta or browning for the same price but it appears that the Turkish maker has decided that it’s product is worthy of that price point. Frankly I think that’s presumptuous at best since just because it “looks” like a perazzi doesn’t make it so and anyone who thinks they will run for millions of rounds like some mx8’s have been documented to do is kidding themselves. Mx8 parts are easy to acquire and easy to rebuild every few hundred thousand rounds but I wouldn’t count on that being the case with the yildiz. Granted the mx8 costs 3 times as much but I’d bet money the yildiz falls apart in a fraction of the time!
 
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Brutus said:
The other caveat here is iffy quality Challenger shotshells. When I experienced hard extraction with a pump gun I spoke with local skeet-trap club.

Seems many others have suspect reliability using any Challenger ammo. They don't order it anymore.
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You hear stuff like this lots about all makes of ammo. The long and short of it the issue is steel based hulls more than anything. Challenger sources their hulls from the same company as many others for their promo or generic lines. Score, Challenger, Kent, Winchester etc, etc all at one time or another source hulls from the same supplier. I've shot them all and never had issues except once with Kents in a Rizzini and that was a primer puncture issue in the Kent Diamond Shot International Trap Loads. Never had anything else ever give me trouble in any of my guns from break actions to pumps and autos??
 
Falconflyer said:
Yildiz is marketing a sporting gun that is a copy of the perazzi mx8 and it’s priced close to 5k in Canadian peso’s. it defies logic that anyone could spend that much money on a Turkish gun when you could buy a beretta or browning for the same price but it appears that the Turkish maker has decided that it’s product is worthy of that price point. Frankly I think that’s presumptuous at best since just because it “looks” like a perazzi doesn’t make it so and anyone who thinks they will run for millions of rounds like some mx8’s have been documented to do is kidding themselves. Mx8 parts are easy to acquire and easy to rebuild every few hundred thousand rounds but I wouldn’t count on that being the case with the yildiz. Granted the mx8 costs 3 times as much but I’d bet money the yildiz falls apart in a fraction of the time!
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Will be interesting to see. As they gain experience in making guns (better) so does the market experience better performance, longevity etc. It’s a balancing act as to when to move upmarket. No one, in any product category, is every exactly right. A lot of serious car people thought Toyota, Nissan and Honda were insane for imagining they could create an upmarket brand. They thought Honda was crazy thinking they could be successful with a “Jap” Ferrari. The NSX. Hmmmm. I wouldn’t bet against the Turks.
 
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