Two hours until my Kel-Tec RFB is here... Photos at Posts 11, 13 & 36
- Thread starter civeng
- Start date
Im noticing alot of Counter-sniper scopes here for some reason. I highly doubt they will stand up to the recoil of .308, they are known for being very low quality.
Just a heads up, you'd be better served with other optics. Counter-sniper is a no-go.
http://www dot snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1301952
www dot ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=342322
www dot ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=352560
www dot ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=352039
Just a heads up, you'd be better served with other optics. Counter-sniper is a no-go.
http://www dot snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1301952
www dot ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=342322
www dot ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=352560
www dot ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=352039
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I only know of a handful of them here. The Crusader is a very high build quality. Midway sells them and they are well reviewed on their website. Here's a partial review I snipped from an optics forum...
I have two of the 4-16x50 "Contractor Overrun" scopes which I purchased from competitor . I have them on two rifles in .308/7.62 NATO. One of those rifles sells for about $2200 and other rifle is $1200, so I should have spent far more on optics. I generally mate rifles with comparably priced optics but these scopes stuck and the drops with the TDRM recticle worked great with my various hand loads.
I have many more expensive scopes and numerous "cheap" scopes I've purchased through the years.
Pros:
These scopes have far more features than any scopes I own. To obtain all these features a scope would typically cost far more. The scopes are extremely solid and well made. The first focal plane mil dot ranging system works great, allowing you to range and figure hold over at any power range. It reminds me of the Leupold Tactical Milling Reticle. The scope holds zero throughout the power range. Clicks are distinctive and completely repeatable. 30mm tubes. Reviews on competitor are positive with a couple exceptions. Locking, adjustable turrets. The illuminated reticle works well and is far superior to the illumination you'd find in a cheap optic. 4x erector. 10 year warranty.
Cons:
I don't think they are as bright as some of the best scopes on the market. I'd guess they are in the 90% light transmission range. The eye relief is tricky too. Lots of second hand stories about problems. Too "tacticool" looking for me but people seem to like the appearance. Allegedly not really contractor overruns. Some claim they are repackaged scopes either Barska, AIM or Vector, depending on the person. I'd give that more weight if they could pick one.
In short, I would not pay $1000+ for one, but for the price I'm very happy. I personally don't think these are repackaged AIM or Vector optics scopes but it's possible some OEM parts are shared. Most people don't realize that many scope companies get parts from Chinese companies, even companies who "make" the scope in the U.S.A, including some scopes in the Leupold lines.
I am a competitive shooter and have been shooting a long time. These are not Barska, Brunton or NCStar crap optics. These are solid, high quality optics. Some of the very negative forum reviews, from people who've never shot the scope, are really unfair. The company is coming out with 8x erector models and that puts them ahead of many big name companies, if the reviews are good I'll probably pick one up. I'd take a Nightforce, Illuminated Mk4 Leupold, etc over a Counter Sniper but they cost 3-5x as much. I prefer the new Monarch X 30mm 2.5-10x Illuminated over the CS as well but that's 1K to $1200 dollars. I have brighter scopes that cost as much, like the new 4x erector Monarchs but they lack the illuminated reticle, locking knobs, etc.
Note the people who actually shot the scope liked them. I've shot 10,000+ rounds of .308/7.62 NATO through my two with zero problems and took one of them on many hunts in the mountains also without any problems including no fogging, breakage, etc.
I would prefer a Nightforce or Trijicon, but I cannot justify the price. Having held the 1x4 Crusader in my mitts, I believe it will more than handle the negligible recoil produced by the RFB.
BTW, my earlier memories of Kel-Tec was that they made cheap junk - akin to Lorcin, and their brand was on my "I ain't gonna buy that $@!T" list... and now I've gone ahead and spent thousands on one of their carbines, and am sitting on a list for the KSG.
Thanks for posting that Stormtrooper!!!
The two things that I think really matter... I have seen numerous reviews which paste the scopes from Counter Sniper, and just as many (which I have found to be far more detailed and better written) which praise them to the heavens. I suspect that there may be some "improvement" having occurred over time... Similar to Kel-Tec having been at one time one of the "Sat night special" type junk producers, now really coming into their own with VERY high quality builds, unique designs, and high level reliability.
All in all I can tell you I have one simple truth to offer: I am very impressed with this rifle, mount, rings, and scope. A near-perfect combination. Given that it seems popular around here maybe we should start calling it the CGN RFB-C ! ;0)
How are the 24-step Bertrillium~Zantitium™ multicoated optical lenses with triple the light transmission of competing designs?
Im glad you're happy with your chicom knockoffs, and dont take it as a personal attack. But please, if anyone is considering buying one do some research first. Ive posted links above. Google will find more, your money is best spent else where. These are airsoft quality optics at best. Get a Vortex if you're looking for a good budget optic.
Ah who am I kidding, NcStar is deemed acceptable here as well. Forget I said anything and carry on.
What's on my rifle is #35 ARMS QD ThrowLever Mount & Medium ARMS 30mm Track MTG Rings. Seems to provide the perfect height for me...
I called around to ALL the Dealers that were going to carry the Kel-Tec line. I specifically asked how many guys were on their waiting list & Lanz had the shortest list, 9 guys ahead of me IF I wanted on the list... So, January 7th I emailed Lanz with the required info & got in line as #10... IIRC Wolverine had several dozen on their list @ this time!!! I can only imagine what the waiting lists are like now...
Now, when this shipment of RFB's showed up, I didn't expect to get one, BUT several guys backed out, several more wanted the next shipment with the Desert Tan model & a couple more didn't respond to Lanz when contacted... Presto, RFB for me!!!
I got it from a friend, the price was right!
Cheers
Jay
How are the 24-step Bertrillium~Zantitium™ multicoated optical lenses with triple the light transmission of competing designs?
Im glad you're happy with your chicom knockoffs, and dont take it as a personal attack. But please, if anyone is considering buying one do some research first. Ive posted links above. Google will find more, your money is best spent else where. These are airsoft quality optics at best. Get a Vortex if you're looking for a good budget optic.
Ah who am I kidding, NcStar is deemed acceptable here as well. Forget I said anything and carry on.
Not taking this as a personal attack at all; However I am very curious... How many optics have your tried and compared to this Counter Sniper optic? Just curious...
I've been around firearms since I was nine. My brothers (both older) saw to that. As a result I've seen a lot of optics, and very few have been better quality than these. Mind you, and I don't think anyone has said any different, these are not the best optics you can buy. They are very good value for your dollar, and of very good quality.
I did not have more than a thousand for my optics after paying $27XX on the rifle. We're actually waiting for the first kid to be born...
All the b1tching and complaining aside, I believe this is a quality build, this time speaking as someone with the authority to speak to such a point: For those who don't know, I am a Forensic Structural Engineer. I've seen a lot of poor quality material; This scope isn't it.
Will it do for a Remington 700 in 338 Lapua? NO. Is it meant to? NO. Will it work well as a Moose Rifle scope out to 300m? Absolutely no question at all.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
You've got one of these things too? Bastage! Slip it up to me in the internal mail so I can fondle it a bit. Hunting season is still on up here...
Hahah. Yes I have one. I waited about 3 years for this rifle to come out. It's the only Kel-Tec product that's ever interested me.
I just put the Burris 3-9x FFII on mine. Should do the trick for all around. Yes also for hunting.
Not as tacticool as the smaller optics guys are putting on with the Arms mounts, but for $225 (scope) and $75 for quick release rings. I can't really complain. Glass on the Burris is 95% light transmission. Also I like the Ballistic plex reticle.
Wow...1 post in 3 years! Anyhow, barrel length is 1/2 inch longer (18.5in.) thus the overall rifle length is 1/2in. longer, mag is pinned to 5 (or you get a small 5 rounder), chamber is .308 instead of 7.62mm and the marking on the side is changed to reflect the new chamber. That's pretty much the only differences...oh ya, our barrels aren't threaded either...
Most of the time you can get your answers just browsing through the forum. But your question is about legality of the firearm - perhaps you meant what makes it non-restricted. If the RFB were to be allowed export from the US to Canada, it would be considered a restricted firearm based on barrel length. The RFB-C has a custom length barrel to meet the classification requirements for a non-restricted firearm (barrel at 18.5" min and 26" min overall length). Any other changes to the rifle, such as the chambering and lack of muzzle brake were done to meet US export regulations, not Canadian firearms legislation.
All that said, the RFB is really no different than my uncle's Browning BAR - Both .308, semi-automatic, 5 round rifles. Optically they are night and day...clearly the Browning doesn't look as "Scary". The more I take my carbines out hunting, the more accepted they are becoming...The RFB may be a game changer, and the reaction by hunters I've shown it to have been great. I bet if it were camo dipped Vault would never be able to meet the demand.... Hmmmm camo dipped....
Hokus Grey
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere between "WTF?" and "FTW!".
