Type 81 vs AK47

[870P]

Why? I would take a VZ58 over an AK any day and would most likely take a Type 81 over an AK.

They really aren't anything special. They just have appeal because you can't own one.

That's because nearly all U.S. market AKs are poorly made, I'd take a good quality AK over a VZ58 any day.

The Type 81 looks very interesting however, I'm just a bit concerned about that rear iron sight setup, it seems a bit shrouded as compared to the AK and VZ58.

 

[pcvando]

That's because nearly all U.S. market AKs are poorly made, I'd take a good quality AK over a VZ58 any day.

The Type 81 looks very interesting however, I'm just a bit concerned about that rear iron sight setup, it seems a bit shrouded as compared to the AK and VZ58.

You would be surprised. Check out the real AK-47 torture tests... With real vintage FA AK's... They failed the mud tests miserably. The AR-15 was far superior in the mud and sand tests.

AK is ok for abuse and lack of cleaning... AR failed that test, M14 sucks in all aspects, MAS 49/56 did way better than everyone thought, and VZ-58 was about the same as AK, maybe a little worse because of exposed bolt.

The truth would explode the Internet... lol

 

[Familygunnutz]

You would be surprised. Check out the real AK-47 torture tests... With real vintage FA AK's... They failed the mud tests miserably. The AR-15 was far superior in the mud and sand tests.

AK is ok for abuse and lack of cleaning... AR failed that test, M14 sucks in all aspects, MAS 49/56 did way better than everyone thought, and VZ-58 was about the same as AK, maybe a little worse because of exposed bolt.

The truth would explode the Internet... lol

People love mythical things like Allah and AK, until the truth come out they either ignore it or get angry

 

[pcvando]

People love mythical things like Allah and AK, until the truth come out they either ignore it or get angry

Yeah its true. AR-15 is far superior, but if you say something like that, you're bound to arouse an angry mob.

Oh and the M14 was the worst rifle they tried. It failed every single one of their tests. POS as a combat rifle. Why they still use it? I don't know. It's good if you baby it.

But I still want a type 81

 

[st1264]

Why? I would take a VZ58 over an AK any day and would most likely take a Type 81 over an AK.

They really aren't anything special. They just have appeal because you can't own one.

I'd take a well built AK47 (especially a real milled M70 Yugo) over any VZ. I shot a Romanian AK47 at a Detroit gun club which I was told "has not been cleaned for years" and it fired perfectly. Loading all 30rds felt funny, but that's the way it should be. Here's my buddy showing it off:

 

[CanAm]

more accurate and durable were the made upgrades.

 

[Conscript]

To everyone who thinks it's an SKS, the gun shares more in common with an SVD Dragonuv than it does SKS.

Type 81 wins over AK and VZ.58 any day.

 

[fenceline]

The VZ-58 is everything the AK should have been...

The Chinese were using the AK, and switched to the Type 81, so clearly there was a reason.

VZ-58 and Type 81 are superior to the AK platform IMO. Bolt hold open, way better sights, better ergonomics, milled receiver for the VZ and more accurate.

Only way they loose is for price. AK is cheaper to make.

The Chinese fielded the AK and sks together right up to the 1980s. By Chinese doctrine the AK was used by officers and at the time was considered more like a submachine gun would be in the west. The sks was a front line grunt weapon. When the first sino-viet war occurred in 79, the all ak Vietnamese dealt some heavy losses on the mostly sks front line Chinese troops. The chinese realized that the limited capacity of the sks was an issue.

The Type 81 was developed to bring the best of the sks and the ak into one package. It was also meant to be a stop gap measure until something better came along.

The military version of our type 97 was that answer in 1995. But the type 81 still hasn't been retired completely from military service. The type 81 has been bumped down to secondary troops and to police and it is still very common.

For a stop gap measure it has endured for nearly 4 decades. And it is seeing service with militaries in Africa and Bangladesh.

Not common here, but no stranger to that side of the world.

 

[870P]

The VZ-58 is everything the AK should have been...

The Chinese were using the AK, and switched to the Type 81, so clearly there was a reason.

VZ-58 and Type 81 are superior to the AK platform IMO. Bolt hold open, way better sights, better ergonomics, milled receiver for the VZ and more accurate.

Only way they loose is for price. AK is cheaper to make.

The VZ58 is indeed better than the original AK-47, but not the AKM and its further developments.

Other than weight, there's no real advantage to the VZ58.

The Chinese built a notably inferior AK until the '80s, when they started to turn into an export economy.

 

[fenceline]

There is only one solution to which is better...

Just buy one of each if you can.

 

[cadgo]

I'd take a well built AK47 (especially a real milled M70 Yugo) over any VZ. I shot a Romanian AK47 at a Detroit gun club which I was told "has not been cleaned for years" and it fired perfectly. Loading all 30rds felt funny, but that's the way it should be. Here's my buddy showing it off:

And you actually believe that? More likely just a gun shop employee talking bull#### like they all do.

 

[cadgo]

That's because nearly all U.S. market AKs are poorly made, I'd take a good quality AK over a VZ58 any day.

The Type 81 looks very interesting however, I'm just a bit concerned about that rear iron sight setup, it seems a bit shrouded as compared to the AK and VZ58.

There's really no such thing. They are cheap rifles, they are meant to be cheap and no matter how much money you spend they are still cheap. Sure, you can get an arsenal or more expensive AK but they are still cheap rifles.

 

[pcvando]

Having shot both AK and VZ, the VZ has way better sights imo.

But in the end, both serve different purposes, and work very well.

Leave the VZ in the shop for years without cleaning and I guarantee it will work just like the AK would.

Personally I prefer the VZ because of its durability, milled receiver and better sights. That being said, I like the AK too. (Especially a high end Valmet.)

Buy both if you can.

Get the whole family; VZ, Valmet M78 AK, SKS, Type 81.

 

[st1264]

There's really no such thing. They are cheap rifles, they are meant to be cheap and no matter how much money you spend they are still cheap. Sure, you can get an arsenal or more expensive AK but they are still cheap rifles.

VZ58's are as cheap as they come in the Czech republic... probably a $100 rifle there. When they come here, they're $1000. I'm sure if we had the ability to get an updated US made AK based rifle we'd jump all over it. We don't have the choice here anyway, so why even talk about it then?

 

[cadgo]

VZ58's are as cheap as they come in the Czech republic... probably a $100 rifle there. When they come here, they're $1000. I'm sure if we had the ability to get an updated US made AK based rifle we'd jump all over it. We don't have the choice here anyway, so why even talk about it then?

I can't buy a Type 81 and I still want to hear about them. Just saying my experience with Ak47s... a lot of hype and really they are just a cheap mass produced rifle. I was terribly disappointed when I moved down here and could finally shoot and own them.

 

[Gatehouse]

To everyone who thinks it's an SKS, the gun shares more in common with an SVD Dragonuv than it does SKS.

Type 81 wins over AK and VZ.58 any day.

Heck, throw the Dragonuv into the mix, too. It's supposed to be a fun thread.

 

[Isadorcj]

The Type 81 was designed to address the perceived shortcomings of the AK - it's essentially the poor man's version, of the poor mans rifle.

hmm I doubt this, Chinese introduced this after the 1979 sino-vietnam war, because most of the battles were fought between hill-tops, so it's like 100-500 range. And everybody knows AK has a horrible accuracy beyond 200 meters. Then the Chinese introduced the Type 81 to replace the AK's (Type 56-2 in China) and swiftly deployed the gun to the front line troops. After 1979 there was a 10-year-long border conflicts, basically trench warfare

The units that first received the Type 81 were the spearhead commando's. You wont give a poor man's rife to the commando's.

China was poor but USSR helped China build dozens of Ak47 production line, they were not short on AK's , check the videos of China-India war of 1959, back then all Chinese soldiers were equipped with AK already.

 

[fenceline]

hmm I doubt this, Chinese introduced this after the 1979 sino-vietnam war, because most of the battles were fought between hill-tops, so it's like 100-500 range. And everybody knows AK has a horrible accuracy beyond 200 meters. Then the Chinese introduced the Type 81 to replace the AK's (Type 56-2 in China) and swiftly deployed the gun to the front line troops. After 1979 there was a 10-year-long border conflicts, basically trench warfare

The units that first received the Type 81 were the spearhead commando's. You wont give a poor man's rife to the commando's.

China was poor but USSR helped China build dozens of Ak47 production line, they were not short on AK's , check the videos of China-India war of 1959, back then all Chinese soldiers were equipped with AK already.

See post 28. The issue wasnt' the AK, it was the lack of firepower available in the SKS, and the methods in which the AK and SKS were deployed.

The USSR and China weren't friends after the 50s.

The Type 81 replaced both the Type 56 AK and Type 56 SKS in front line service in China in the 80s. Both the AK and SKS were then relegated to reserve, militia and police units.
- (Miller, David (2003). The illustrated directory of twentieth century guns. Zenith Imprint. pp. 278–279. ISBN 978-0-7603-1560-6.)

Obviously the Chinese believe the Type 81 is a better gun than both the AK and the SKS.

Bangladesh builds the guns under licence as the BD-08.

Algeria, Cambodia, Djibouti, Ivory Coast, Myanmar, Nepal, Nigeria, Pakistan, Sierra Leone, Sri Lanka, Sudan and Tanzania have also been using them.

 

[870P]

There's really no such thing. They are cheap rifles, they are meant to be cheap and no matter how much money you spend they are still cheap. Sure, you can get an arsenal or more expensive AK but they are still cheap rifles.

There's in-spec and not in-spec, and when you mix the lowest quality domestic parts with tired (and sometimes rejected) surplus parts, its bound to be the latter.

 

[Horilka]

You can trust no one with tests.
American mud tests - AR15 vs AK47 vs VZ58 and AR15 wins, AK47 being second, VZ58 is third. BTW it's stupid to test modern AR15 with some high end components vs factory made AK47 part kit with god-knows-what-kind-of american made receiver (why not AK74???) So tests are kind of really stupid but here they are:

AR15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAneTFiz5WU

AK47

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73uXs3xGU

VZ58

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3kComQz40o

Now when russkies do AR15 vs AK74 test, AR15 fails miserably. Not like I trust russkies, actually I normally assume they lie most of the time, but anyway, here's their test, no dubbing, but you can see AR15 always fails.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr1tV2nsGoM

So which rifle is better? The one you know better.