Type 81

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evolture said:
OK am I the only guy who sees more AK in the T81 than SKS?
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The type 81 is a direct decedent of the Type 63/68. The type 63/68 was an amalgamation of everything the chinese liked out of the ak and the sks. They modified the gas system and bolt carrier out of an sks and adapted the magazine and rotating bolt out of the ak, while upgrading the mag to feature a bolt hold open device.
 
You would think China would be able to manufacture and export a decades old design a lot more inexpensively than a Czech company, which would have more regs, more expensive labour, higher operating costs in general.

Trying to contrast the vz58 and t81 from a cost of production standpoint, and just have the general feeling that there is no logical reason the t81 should be in vz58 territory price wise, except for market demand (not related to cost of production).

Obviously the importers will set the absolute highest price the market can bear to keep demand high, which is why $800-1000 seems about right.

To me as an endpoint consumer, that is not an outrageous price considering other NR 7.62x39 semiauto options. In fact, they could be the cheapest 7.62x39 NR semiauto outside of the SKS (a design nearly 5 decades older, with no detachable mag, no pistol grip, and in SURPLUS condition).
 
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fenceline said:
The type 81 is a direct decedent of the Type 63/68. The type 63/68 was an amalgamation of everything the chinese liked out of the ak and the sks. They modified the gas system and bolt carrier out of an sks and adapted the magazine and rotating bolt out of the ak, while upgrading the mag to feature a bolt hold open device.
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I'm just adding to what fenceline said, the type 81 was designed to replace the type 63/68, type 56 semi(SKS), type 56 assault rifle (AK47),
a intermediate rifle system until the development of 5.8mm family of rifles, it's the base rifle of the subsequent 5.8mm Type 87(prototype) and 5.8mm QBZ03(in service).

the type 63/68 was meant to be a upgrade to type 56 SKS after the sino-india war, but due to the political back ground (culture revolution) at the time and weak manufacturing capabilities, the type 63 (upgraded SKS) was plagued with problems and was finally abandoned by the military, a plan to develop a new rifle was started but the progress was slow almost stopped due to the "10 year culture revolution".

therefore during the 1979 sino-vietnam war, most Chinese soldiers are still equipped with SKS rifles, the Chinese soon realised they needed their own class of assault rifles/LMG,
the plan for a new rifle was brought back and fast tracked, by 1981, the T81 rifle series was born.

The design team liked many aspects of the AK47(T56A), but disliked others, mainly the lack of accuracy..severe muzzle flip during full auto fire.. etc,...

main similarities and differences between T81 and AK47 are,
1.T81 and AK share similar working internals, bolt lock up, feeding, recoil system, etc
2.T81's improved accuracy of 4.5cm group at 100m
3.T81 weights 3.4Kg which is lighter than the Chinese made AK(4.03kg) and weights almost the same as a Russian AK47(3.47kg)
4.Matching reliability of Russian made counter part, 20000 rds (claimed)without major parts failure.
7.Major Parts interchangeability (appox 70%) between all variants of T81 including LMG.

all the information was extracted from a interview with the T81 head designer, quite a interesting read, but sadly it's all written in Chinese, I don't have the time to translate the whole thing lol...I might one day when the t81 finally get here.
anyone interested(and able to read Chinese) can find the interview here...
http://jczs.news.sina.com.cn/p/2006-06-28/0730379888.html
 
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Interesting indeed!. I need one in non restricted with a Folder. I also may look into changing the charging handle style to an AK style. Never did like the knurled knob.
 
I have trouble believing the Chinese AK was actually deficient. It sounds more like a musician blaming the instrument.

My alternate history goes as the following: The Chinese may have a hard time fighting the Vietnamese due to the Vietnamese recent heavy combat experience against the American's. The Chinese may have also no longer wanted to seem under the shadow of the USSR. I get the sense the Type 81 was developed for nationalistic reasons; Just like most other service rifles deployed by other nations. If this were not the case, no country would use anything other than an akm/ak74 or M4 variant.
 
does anyone know what kind of configuration they will come in ? og chinese folding stock? "ribbed" barrel?
 
evolture said:
I have trouble believing the Chinese AK was actually deficient. It sounds more like a musician blaming the instrument.

My alternate history goes as the following: The Chinese may have a hard time fighting the Vietnamese due to the Vietnamese recent heavy combat experience against the American's. The Chinese may have also no longer wanted to seem under the shadow of the USSR. I get the sense the Type 81 was developed for nationalistic reasons; Just like most other service rifles deployed by other nations. If this were not the case, no country would use anything other than an akm/ak74 or M4 variant.
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You are absolutely correct that it was developed for nationalistic reasons also, this is China after all especially before the economic reform. although I would not say the Chinese had a hard time in Vietnam but the Soviet support for
Vietnam during the sino-vietnam war cemented the will of China to develop their own rifle instead of keeping on manufacturing Chinese AKs.
The designer not once said the AK was deficient, in fact he praised AK's reliability and fire power in CQB,
that's why T81 is heavily influenced by AK with added accuracy improvements.

P.S The Chinese military complained their SKS is inefficient during the sino-vietnam war, not their AKs, they had very limited amount of AKs avaliblle at the time, only 2 x AK in every squad, or 1 AK and 1 LMG out of 12-13 soldiers
 
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can14 said:
I have a chinese military ak47 and it is nicer than my russia ak47 in workmanship
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I worked on a lot of AKs overseas and I have to agree the Chinese ones are very well made. The brand new Yugo AKs I inspected had major QC issues and had a lot of hard extractions.
 
I don't even care about why it came to be. That doesn't matter, it exists now and it's a nice piece of machinery. I want one, nationalism be damned.
 
Would the side folding stock be interchangeable with the wood stock like on the cz 858? It would be great to have both stock options.
 
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