Type 97 Classification Issues - PART TWO

Drewz said:
Get out to the range and enjoy that gun, that is an order!!!!!!!!!! You have legal paperwork right now so you are doingnothing wrong.
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I second this! Giver 'till she glows! They can take it, but you can burn it out before they do! Pick a day, announce it here, byob (bring your own bullets), we meet up at Poco (thats where you shoot isn't it?) and send that fine rifle to the rifle heaven in the sky. Take donations as a "rental fee" and you might pay for it! Everybody wins.
 
Eth0 said:
So my understanding is as an owner of the Type 97: (options right now)

- If I already have the prohib class, i can keep it but if do not have the prohib class, to bad for me.
- They will not change my PAL class title from restricted to prohib class
- Sell my T97 to any prohib class owner that have the grandfather
- They will not pay back any money for their mistake
- The only other way (to keep it) is to deactivate it by some sort of process like welding, etc... as it will not be a firearm anymore.
- They will come and get it as the last resort
- So basically..Remove your pants, bent, thank-you come again

Is there any other legal options?
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Welcome to Kanada. Please check my signature so you understand how things work in this country.
 
By all means...bring 'er out!!! If you do get anywhere near Poco with it let us know. I'll share some rounds with ya for the priviledge of handling her...
 
FYI Our guns are even more different from full auto than the first batch. The first batch had FA markings from what I have seen.

Also, do not listen to the lies about them arriving as full auto. That is the line the FRT lab is feeding the higher ups to justify the seizure.

The lab converted them, they say, within the terms of Hasselwander. But they will not release the report, so who knows.

You guys should see my ATI file. Lies on top of lies. Even CBSA was baffled by the FRT labs' reports.

I have held the litiny of sordid details back, hoping a political solution can be found. We'll see.

If you get a chance, please contact Vic Toews and express your disgust.
 
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Vic Toews, Minister of Public Safety (RCMP & CBSA)
Parliament Hill
Suite 306, Justice Building House of Commons
Ottawa. Ont. K1A 0A6
Ph: (613) 992-3128
Fx: (613) 995-1049

Please do not email
 
I feel they might make muskets prohib and pallet restricted one day...
One the day comes eventually I will move south for sure...
As I can understand the only reason countries prohibit firearm is not for public safety as a propaganda but regime safety...
 
CanAm said:
FYI Our guns are even more different from full auto than the first batch. The first batch had FA markings from what I have seen.

Also, do not listen to the lies about them arriving as full auto. That is the line the FRT lab is feeding the higher ups to justify the seizure.

The lab converted them, they say, within the terms of Hasselwander. But they will not release the report, so who knows.

You guys should see my ATI file. Lies on top of lies. Even CBSA was baffled by the FRT labs' reports.

I have held the litiny of sordid details back, hoping a political solution can be found. We'll see.

If you get a chance, please contact Vic Toews and express your disgust.
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Can you not get it via the freedom of information act?
 
I'm not surprised, if the RCMP can get away with murder, pushing their own agenda is nothing for these crooks. Get these bums out of government and back in fast food chain restaurants where they belong.
 
Unless it is " We are here to serve you with a warrant" they do put that in writing very often.
I know what you mean and if they do put anything in writing you have to find it. Asked simple question received 30 pages by fax. It means find an answer yourself and then we interpret it.

Good luck

CanAm said:
They avoid putting anything in writing unless they have to.
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Nope, blanked out to prevent a "criminal act". Even after they promised, twice, to release the info.
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Excellent, now you know you're on the right track. When they can't provide an explanation you know they're up to no good and trying to cover their asses, all it takes from here is perseverance and determination at cracking the nut. Keep chipping away until, "Never give up, never surrender" :)
 
Keep up the letter and phone campaign!

I called Mr. Toews' office today. His staff asked me to provide my concerns in an email. I told them I sent an email yesterday. They asked me to send another. Here it is. All of you should be doing the same...cc'ing the PM and your MP, and even your senator.


24 February 2010



The Honourable Vic Toews, MP
Minister of Public Safety

Dear Sir,

At the request of your office staff I am providing this letter to document the troubles I have had with Canada Border Services Agency and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police firearms technicians and the Canada Firearms Program.

In 2008 a company imported a number of Norinco/Polytechnic Type 97 .223 sporting rifles. These rifles were then classified by the RCMP as restricted due to their barrel length. Another company consulted the RCMP in regards to the classification of this rifle should it have a longer barrel. The RCMP decided that based on the applicable statute and regulations, it would be considered non-restricted, and assigned a FRT (Firearms Reference Table Number) for the non-restriced Type 97 rifle, approving this rifle for importation and possession by anyone holding a firearms PAL (Possession/Acquisition License).

This company then ordered and imported a quantity of these rifles, approximately the same time as the CPC MPs were supporting a CPC MP's private member's bill to dismantle the sillier aspects of the firearms registry. I, among hundreds of other law abiding firearms enthusiasts and hunters across Canada, purchased one of these unique rifles for $849.00 and taxes. However, I never acquired this rifle thanks to the RCMP.

The RCMP firearms technicians employed by the Canada Firearms Program at this time removed the FRT number from restricted and non-restricted Type 97 rifles, making them prohibited. At the RCMP's direction, CBSA seized the shipment, and Canada Ammo was unable to provide me with my rifle. No reasoning was provided by the RCMP or the CBSA depsite my repeated telephone, email, and written inquiries to these two agencies, as well as your Ministry under your predecessor, the Honourable Peter Van Loan.

In subsequent conversations with CFP employees I was told that the rifles had arrived in a fully automatic configuration, justifying the RCMP's decision. However, several other credible sources have confirmed that the RCMP spent a significant portion of the last year trying to change this semi-automatic rifle into a automatic machine gun. Copies of Access to Information requests that I have seen do not confirm this information, and the RCMP has blacked out a majority of the material citing "national security" ramifications which is patently ridiculous if no one can actually own this rifle.

I believe that the RCMP has maliciously target law abiding gun owners by refusing to provide this information or release the rifle. In law, classifications must be justified within the guidelines of the regulations, and in this case as in the case of the .22lr GSG-9, the .22lr M&P 15-22, and various other firearms, the RCMP is classifying them based simply on cosmetic appearance and NOT function. For this they are accountable to no one.

In Regina vs. Hasslewander, the Supreme Court of Canada has provided guidelines for the RCMP to follow in attempting to convert a semiautomatic to automatic configuration. None of the information provided by the RCMP to date falls within the SCC's definitions. If it does, there should be no reason that the ATIP documention is blacked out.

Mr. Minister, sort out this mess. Direct the RCMP to cease the harassment, properly classify the Type 97, M&P 15-22, and GSG-9 rifles, and permit law abiding gun owners to enjoy their sport, hunting, and pest eradication. I have a financial stake in the outcome of this situation, but further, my auxilary right to posess firearms, as recognized in Regina vs. Montague is being unlawfully restricted.

Your party and this government have promised to recognize Canadian's rights to property and self defense by cleaning up the mess created by years of Liberal administration. Abolishing the long gun regsitry is a very small first step. Repealing the Firearms Act (BIll C-68) and related regulations and OICs will take your government past band aid solutions. However, as long as Liberal beaucrats imbedded in the public service are permitted to harrass the law abiding gun owners through arbitrary restrictions, reclassifications, and the unprecidented stupidity of the release of gun owners' information to a private company, no Canadian is safe! I urge your government to launch an inquiry into the costly and pointless operations of the Canadian Firearms Program, especially in light of the recent raid of the firearms collection of esteemed Mr. C. Martin, QC, of Toronto while he was in palliative care. The criminals likely obtained their information through any one of the 300 yearly breaches of sensitive information in the registry.

Respectfully yours,



shootemup

CC:
The Right Honourable Stephan Harper, PM
The Right Honourable Chuck Strahl, MP
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Big brother can always outspend you on legal cost by the sheer size of his pocket and army of in house lawyers.

They don't have to win in court. They simply drag, stonewall, delay, harass and appeal every step of the way until you are drowned in legal debt or crumbled under mental stress.

Going to court is a novel idea. But other than CanAm who has a lot more at stake financially, how many here is prepared to go all the way to fight over a $1K Type 97 toy?

This sucks but it is the reality we all face as gun owners, and the fed knows this too well to use as a weapon against us.
 
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