Type 97 Classification Issues - PART TWO

If a court challenge has been filed, would it not be a matter of public record? Why the need for secrecy?
The individual involved with the Sten classification reports that he is basing his challenge on the ability of other semi auto firearms to be converted to auto. I cannot imagine that any competent legal counsel would recommend such an approach as being one likely to achieve the desired result. He reported that a court date had been set for Easter Monday. Who knows what, if anything, happened?
Much speculation and opinion have been posted. Here and there are bits of fact, but they are hard to find. The principals have chosen not to publish the specific details of their situations. Nothing is going to change until they, or the authorities, release detailed, definitive statements.
 
ROMMELROMMEL;
Please note that I said "under Canadian regs and policies."
This what is being enforced, not my policies, the FEDS.
John
 
CLOBBERSAURUS;
There are no basic differences between any of the various models of VZ-58 "family".
MORE info to follow, it is not over.
John
 
johnone said:
CLOBBERSAURUS;
There are no basic differences between any of the various models of VZ-58 "family".
MORE info to follow, it is not over.
John
Click to expand...

Thanks for responding John - That's what I understood. I would be very nervous as an importer these days, as you just never know what could happen to your shipment - even if you have all your I's dotted and T's crossed. In the end, I guess that is what the RCMP wanted. :mad:
 
Well Clob I guess its up to us to decide whether or not we should allow the RCMP to continue on this path they have laid out. They have obviously forgotten that we're actual people in all of this.
 
Hasselwander creates a three part test:

To be a F/A rifle it must be capable of full auto fire after a conversion done:

1) In a relatively short period of time (Most of the case law is under 1 hour, most within 15 minutes).
2) With parts that are widely available
3) By a person with reasonable skill (in other words, not a gunsmith).
 
Either one of two things:

1) The T-97 can be converted to full auto in line with Hasselwander

Or

2) It cannot.

If it can, then it shouldn't be available. If they're stretching it, the RCMP should be taken to the woodshed.
 
Paul Morrison said:
Either one of two things:

1) The T-97 can be converted to full auto in line with Hasselwander

Or

2) It cannot.

If it can, then it shouldn't be available. If they're stretching it, the RCMP should be taken to the woodshed.
Click to expand...

Notwithstanding Hasselwander was a ridiculous ruling and a clear example of the court legislating from the bench. The dissenters in that case had it right.
 
Clobbersauras said:
As I've stated earlier my suspicion is that this is a case of the Canadian firearm community eating our own. Clearly some of the posters in this thread indicate they knew the shipment was doomed BEFORE it even landed in country. I'm not saying that these posters had anything to do with it, but prior knowledge is telling in and of itself. Someone knew what was going to happen, we have to ask ourselves why and where this knowledge originated from. It was stated that perhaps the CGN community and posters like myself brought undue attention to the T97, but I think that is giving us too much credit.
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It looks like you jump to conclusions a little to fast. Having the right info about the trouble about to happen is a lot different than having anything to do with what caused the trouble, even by a long stretch. If your suggestions are based on solid facts, I would say that you should tell all. These may be very grave facts here and that is why half measures dont work when making accusations. Let me know what you know if it is worth it. But if it is something coming out of distorted ways of thinking like seen in 90% of the posts in here, then it may be is bull#### and gossip.
Some of you guys should take some fresh air. In gunstores on Saturdays you can find more truth to be said about the 97 situation then in some of the posts here.


So far, everything Lector said in this thread or when I talked to him, proved to be true.If you add 1+1 the info found in other corners of the internet you will see that he was right. Here only two examples :

some of the frt numbers proving that the decisions have been reached long time ago, in february: frt numbrs 129254 and 129257 (norinco and polytec) posted about a month ago on one website, and the same plus 129256 from another website posted at about the same time.
pictures of the cutoff and grinded trigger parts, some of the pictures have tag numbers attached. I still dont know how to post pictures on forums but even if I do, some dudes on another site were saying that the same pictures were edited or deleted from CGn.


Up to this point, Lector was right on with his knowledge and I could not see why I should tag him for any wrongdoing. But if you have any hard evidence or facts or info or stories or a theory, i would like to hear it and if you convince me, let me be the one to cast the first stone.
 
"kaiser sose", after the second veiwing, the usual suspects is quite lame, why have you chosen that name? I would rather listen to what first of all Can Am has to say, then John for his experiance, Paul for his positive attitude and and action and also Clob who actually owns a T97 and has a vested intersted. Lets go guys we got a just cause here lets not lose focus on the questioniable charactors around here. sorry for the bad spelling I got a dinner to attend.
 
The FRT numbers in my other post were issued in February. I was thinking that the importer would be the first one to know the numbers.I tried to listen to CanaAm and I did not hear anything.

Of course I listen to Johnone (I assume you refer to him). I would like more details given by him.

As you and Paul already know by now, the positive attitude dont sell these days, the same like the good intentions.

I am sorry for Clob stuck with that 97. What course of action is he taking? and others like him? because if all he does is calling cfc twice a week, it is likely he will hear the same story over and over. Some other people who called the Tech Lab were told the conversion took under a minute (from another website). I will try to call next week for the first time to test my luck.

I feel sorry you dont like my handle.
 
hasselwander is a complete bull#### ruling anyways.

If a gun is a semi, it's a semi, not what it could be.

Might as well throw everyone in jail, we could all kill someone.
 
May I make a suggestion Kaiser Sose, instead of calling the Techs write a short letter to a Van Loan saying please release T97's as it is the just thing to do.
 
I can find no ref to 12956, it seems to be gone, the other two are for the full auto and the poly guns. I was interested to see if they had added yet more FRT numbers
 
As for Clob I do not feel sorry for you unlike other people in this thread, I am jealous of you because you have your 97 hopefully I will one day have the one I paid for too, thanks clob for the photos its a great looking rifle. I feel strongly this is a situation that we the sports shooting community and importers will win, as the way this has unfolded we deserve a victory.
 
Kaiser_Sose said:
The FRT numbers in my other post were issued in February. I was thinking that the importer would be the first one to know the numbers.I tried to listen to CanaAm and I did not hear anything.

Of course I listen to Johnone (I assume you refer to him). I would like more details given by him.

As you and Paul already know by now, the positive attitude dont sell these days, the same like the good intentions.

I am sorry for Clob stuck with that 97. What course of action is he taking? and others like him? because if all he does is calling cfc twice a week, it is likely he will hear the same story over and over. Some other people who called the Tech Lab were told the conversion took under a minute (from another website). I will try to call next week for the first time to test my luck.

I feel sorry you dont like my handle.
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Kaiser - if you read my original post I stated quite clearly that I didn't think the posters in this thread had anything to do with this. That includes you and Lector.

Let me state again - I don't think this mess was caused by you, Lector, or anyone who's posted on this thread. Lector seems like a stand up guy, certainly he has a huge knowledge base and his original Type 97 posts were part of the reason I bought my rifle.

That being said, It would have been nice if those that had prior knowledge could have warned members about the issues in a clear and concise manner. It would have saved a lot of problems. But hey, I made my own bed and I have to sleep in it.

As to feeling sorry for me, don't.

As to what I'm doing about it? All I can do. I've written the lettters, I've made the phone calls to the Techs and the Head Tech, I've contacted the MP's. I've posted my findings here. Life goes on, and we wait for more information. In the mean time I try to connect the dots.

P.S. I like your name:cool:

Edit:
Kaiser_Sose said:
some of the frt numbers proving that the decisions have been reached long time ago, in february: frt numbrs 129254 and 129257 (norinco and polytec) posted about a month ago on one website, and the same plus 129256 from another website posted at about the same time.
pictures of the cutoff and grinded trigger parts, some of the pictures have tag numbers attached. I still dont know how to post pictures on forums but even if I do, some dudes on another site were saying that the same pictures were edited or deleted from CGn.
Click to expand...

What web sites are you refering to?
 
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