Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Are you talking about those neat little single shot rifles of Germanic origin??
Please indulge us with a pic or two?
Ultralight Hunting Rifle
- Thread starter cbh560
- Start date
Please indulge us with a pic or two?
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I'm still happy, show me another guy making a fully Titanium Mauser down to the pins and screws, and I'll consider his lead time.
H&H orders from him for five years down the road, you want something that unique and quality, it doesn't come fast unfortunately. Also means there are that fewer of them out there, as few would go for the lead time, so not complaining. Soon as he hires people and starts overseeing, it won't be a one off hand built by the man himself action anymore. Many good things are ruined through expansion, Stuart himself left Dakota when it started to change.
I'm still happy, show me another guy making a fully Titanium Mauser down to the pins and screws, and I'll consider his lead time.
Show me another guy that is charging $6500 for a bare action with a 5 year lead time. My father was a CNC machinist and his best friend was too. I've spent a few summers on a lathe and milling machine. I can't see a reason why it takes him that long, unless he is way over-committed or just doesn't feel the need to get things done in a timely fashion. As you point out few would go for the lead time...so then why the huge lead time??? I am skeptical that folks will plop down their hard earned money to H&H and then wait 5+ years for a rifle. Maybe I am wrong. I guess the key is that you, the paying customer, is happy to wait the 5 years.
Yes, things can be ruined through expansion, but they can be ruined by keeping customers waiting forever too. You could order a fully customized Pagani, Koenigsegg, Ferrari or Porsche GT3 from the factory and it wouldn't take 1/4 of the time you are talking about.
At the end of the day you will have a super light titanium Mauser, and you will be the only one on the block to have one. Hopefully by the time you get it you will still be young enough to climb the mountain for you sheep!
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
You're right I can't; he's the only guy who builds em. He's a one man shop, and every stage is done in a batch, he doesn't even start cutting titanium unless a half dozen orders are in, that's one big part of the wait. I'm afraid you haven't run enough machines yet to get a good bead on it. Just look at the one piece bolt, that's a machinist apprentice's nightmare. Then make it titanium with all the super slow feeds and galling fun. Run a lot of machines myself, still do the lathe of course, and the more I look at his stuff the more I'm impressed. He's the only one doing the Ti actions not because he's the only one who's tried, but because others have given it a go and decided no thanks. One of his competitors challenged him saying it wouldn't be that bad, and he'd EDM the whole thing in no time. Didn't work out that way. It's not impossible, it's just very hard, very slow, very expensive and only one very talented guy does it. For that, you wait, I'm happy, and since you don't have an order you're waiting on you should be too!
You seem to have taken personal offence to the lead time on my order! I assure you, I'm happy, so we all can be.
He's a one man shop, and every stage is done in a batch, he doesn't even start cutting titanium unless a half dozen orders are in, that's one big part of the wait. I'm afraid you haven't run enough machines yet to get a good bead on it. Just look at the one piece bolt, that's a machinist apprentice's nightmare. Then make it titanium with all the super slow feeds and galling fun. Run a lot of machines myself, still do the lathe of course, and the more I look at his stuff the more I'm impressed. He's the only one doing the Ti actions not because he's the only one who's tried, but because others have given it a go and decided no thanks. One of his competitors challenged him saying it wouldn't be that bad, and he'd EDM the whole thing in no time. Didn't work out that way. It's not impossible, it's just very hard, very slow, very expensive and only one very talented guy does it. For that, you wait, I'm happy, and since you don't have an order you're waiting on you should be too! You seem to have taken personal offence to the lead time on my order!
I assure you, I'm happy, so we all can be. 
burnt_servo
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- right in the middle of b.c.
isn't titanium a b*tch to machine properly ?
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
A severe one, indeed. One of the most unfriendly materials to work, and most of the expense of titanium parts comes not from the cost of the materials, but rather the working of the metal. I was installing screws on a helicopter about five years ago to help an engineer get it into the air quicker, and had them staged in my lip as I went to speed it up as there was a hundred of the things to do. I was dropping the odd one, and continuing, and he pointed out "Those stupid little screws are titanium, $50 EACH, don't lose em." I was treating them like drywall screws. Jon if you make this thread you'll know the screws all too well, astar bubble screws.
No, I take no offense Ardent - as I said the key is that the paying customer is happy.
And I haven't run nearly enough machines to be even considered an apprentice. But I have watched my father build clutches for US Navy minesweepers, so I have had someone who knows a thing or two show me a few things. Regardless, as I mentioned I am certainly not personally able to even consider a project of 1/100th the complexity. I just can't see why it takes 5 years - the cost I get and totally appreciate, it's just the time. But I am happy, so all is well.
And I haven't run nearly enough machines to be even considered an apprentice. But I have watched my father build clutches for US Navy minesweepers, so I have had someone who knows a thing or two show me a few things. Regardless, as I mentioned I am certainly not personally able to even consider a project of 1/100th the complexity. I just can't see why it takes 5 years - the cost I get and totally appreciate, it's just the time. But I am happy, so all is well.
There was a guy a 24 Hour Campfire selling Kimber replacement bolt handles he made out of Ti for $49 bucks each, so it is doable.... if you have the skills.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2175472/Titanium_bolt_handle_Fits_Kimb
Actually, I've been thinking and I think I do get it. The fellow works on the parts for the action when he has time. In between that he does other paying work where the client needs the work done in a more timely fashion. The ones who want the Ti action just have to wait as there is no choice but to wait.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yep, a screw, a bolt handle, simple screw machine parts, $50. They are the easiest to make, too, a symmetrical turned part like a thread in bolt handle. A whole functioning Mauser with Rigby style bottom metal, a whole 'nother. I take it and understand the wait and expense aren't worth it to you, certainly interesting for me however. I pass through PG regularly, will bring it by for a gander one of these years when it's done. I still have to fit the stock, barrel, and iron sights when it gets here, will be awhile! I'm slower at tackling my projects than Stuart these days with kids, work, and trips unfortunately.
I take it and understand the wait and expense aren't worth it to you, certainly interesting for me however. I pass through PG regularly, will bring it by for a gander one of these years when it's done. I still have to fit the stock, barrel, and iron sights when it gets here, will be awhile! I'm slower at tackling my projects than Stuart these days with kids, work, and trips unfortunately.The kids and family are worth it though. I bought my boy a Bowtech Infinite Edge the other day. He is 7 1/2 and I take great pleasure in watching him shoot the thing. Please call me next time you are in town. By the way, I didn't say the expense wasn't worth it to me, only the time. But then again the need for instant gratification is a clear sign of immaturity at best and psychopathy at worst!
Get rid of the kidz... they're going to leave anyway... and stats tell us that it costs $243,660 to raise each one to age 18... that's a lot of Ti builds... and an 18 year lead time...
What's worse is the return on your investment is... (wait for it)... MORE kidz... right when you are old and crotchety and wanna play with your Ti builds...
and 6.5 guy can operate the same bow ....
same with my wife, and mine is pink hard to be a left handed shooter lol ...
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
That's the reason we all should have been taught "realistic economics" back in grade school. Too many goofs thinkin' with their parts, instead of their smarts. Doomed by instinct we be.
Small wonder we're so frickin' crowded.
