Unfortunate M1A failure.

Norc receivers don't break in half
Never met a norc that has bolt roller/receiver contact

The extremely rare occurences that have been reported regarding bolts breaking or barrels flying off are the same stories getting exaggerated into more than one or two reports.

As a man who has personally handled 100's of norincos I don't see the obvious issues that plague the venerable and pricey springfield.

Yer money and body parts at risk , too each his own ;)
 
Let's get it straight here. Don't care or bash if someone decides to buy a norc. Of course there are rare occurrences with everything out there that's man made that's life. You are a big fan of norcs and that's good , because a lot of people can learn from you. But once again you are bashing SA because of a gun that broke in half . Did you inspect it? NO. Many have said with much more expierence than you that it's a rare occurrence and how many rifles did they sell?. I'm not trying to be a D!ck but I won't buy a new car knowing that it needs to have work done so it runs right and I leave it at that. Again it's great to hear your advice and keep it coming but I think you should be alittle more professional . Cheers
 
I'm glad the guy wasn't hurt. Seems like a pretty freak occurance no matter who built it. I definitely want to get my hands on some of that brass he was shooting though, that stuff really held up when everything else didn't.

All in all, I'm still way more worried about bad drivers on the way to the range than about who cast this or forged that - and statistically it'll probably be Timmies that winds up killing me in the end anyway.
 
A forged receiver will always be stronger than a cast receiver, yet a quality cast receiver with proper heat treating will do the job as evidenced by many thousands of heavy recoiling rifles that Sturm Ruger has produced on cast receivers over the years.

There are some very bad cast receivers around. I once bought a Federal Ordnance M1903A3 clone with a cast receiver with the aim of using it as using a source of GI parts. It had been fired very little as evidenced by the barrel which gauged as new, yet it exhibited very excessive headspace due to visible setback of the locking lug seats in the receiver. This may well have been due to improper heat treatment, but the smart money says to avoid buying either a National Ordnance or Federal Ordnance M1903A3 with the idea of shooting it.
 
PitBull1973 said:
Let's get it straight here. Don't care or bash if someone decides to buy a norc. Of course there are rare occurrences with everything out there that's man made that's life. You are a big fan of norcs and that's good , because a lot of people can learn from you. But once again you are bashing SA because of a gun that broke in half . Did you inspect it? NO. Many have said with much more expierence than you that it's a rare occurrence and how many rifles did they sell?. I'm not trying to be a D!ck but I won't buy a new car knowing that it needs to have work done so it runs right and I leave it at that. Again it's great to hear your advice and keep it coming but I think you should be alittle more professional . Cheers
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I totally get that but lets say your not the kind of guy that is satisfied driving a honda civic. Your more of a corvette guy but you dont have 100 000$ for a corvette but you could buy a Chinese copy of a corvette for 25 000$, same chassie, better engine. But the Chinese one has a cheap paint job , plain mags, cheap light bulb that burns out quick and horrible tires. Would you concider it? I mean you put another 10 000$ in that cheap knock of and you have as good, fast and pretty of a car! It's just instead of being a Chevrolet corvette its a chevivoto korvette lol.
 
Stupid debate, all products have some lemon, Norinco win in this case with the gold palm.

So you get what you pay for.M1a are far ahead out the box.
 
Blegend said:
Needing mods isn't really the issue or a point to knock. Buy a $550ish hundred dollar gun, and add $500 in parts and you are still looking at less than a Springfield. Plus for those of us that struggle to leave things stock, buying a $1500 rifle and adding parts is a little much. If you have the funds giver. Sure the norc is gonna take work (anyone who expects perfection out of the box is kidding themselves), but I would be playing around with it either way.

But in this example, the norc has a forged receiver versus the cast SA receiver. Buy what you can afford, do what makes you happy, but the guy buying the norinco doesn't always need to be treated like a lesser human because he spent less than the guy buying the Springfield.
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We keep hearing this. There are many SAI cast receivers that have fired thousands of rounds without incident. They will give you a lifetime of service. There are well over 1 million of them in circulation. As an American "assembled" and sold product if there was real doubt about their ability to fire safely they would be scrutinized and the company penalized and sued. The Chinese don't give a damn about you and your safety and the QC on them sometimes reflects that. If the quality has improved that's a result of bad press far more than a concern for your safety or the quality of the rifle. The Chinese government is not a humanitarian organization.

For some a big issue with SAI is the fact that they adopted the name of the Government armory which is misleading more than anything else. Some guys are confused by it when others talk about SA parts vs. SAI parts. The latter being the commercial entity.

A few years ago the automotive press did a survey of vehicle owners to find out what the satisfaction level was with each brand. The lowest score went to Mercedes. I think that people who buy a Mercedes expected perfection and the ones who bought Hyundai are happy it gets them to work or don't want to admit it's a piece of ####.

And I've toyed with the idea of buying a Norinco myself. Why would I? I have no concerns about shooting my M1A's and soon I'll have an LRB assembled. I just see it taking up valuable safe space for no reason. those of you who love your Norincos well good on you. I'm glad to know that you are adding thousands to the number of legally owned M14 semi auto rifles in Canada. It makes it a bit tougher for the Government to restrict or prohibit their use.

Has anyone considered that the aftermarket stock put an undesirable stress vertically on that receiver? My understanding is that the op rod guide is attached to it and the receiver failed vertically at its thinnest spot. If you bend the tracks the train will derail.
 
rally guy said:
I totally get that but lets say your not the kind of guy that is satisfied driving a honda civic. Your more of a corvette guy but you dont have 100 000$ for a corvette but you could buy a Chinese copy of a corvette for 25 000$, same chassie, better engine. But the Chinese one has a cheap paint job , plain mags, cheap light bulb that burns out quick and horrible tires. Would you concider it? I mean you put another 10 000$ in that cheap knock of and you have as good, fast and pretty of a car! It's just instead of being a Chevrolet corvette its a chevivoto korvette lol.
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I like that analogy. A lot of the decision about which one you'd pick also depends on whether you love spending your time working on cars or if you want to be able to just put it in the garage and wax it every weekend. Also on whether you want just one or two, or if you plan on getting a different one for each day of the week ;)
 
rally guy said:
I totally get that but lets say your not the kind of guy that is satisfied driving a honda civic. Your more of a corvette guy but you dont have 100 000$ for a corvette but you could buy a Chinese copy of a corvette for 25 000$, same chassie, better engine. But the Chinese one has a cheap paint job , plain mags, cheap light bulb that burns out quick and horrible tires. Would you concider it? I mean you put another 10 000$ in that cheap knock of and you have as good, fast and pretty of a car! It's just instead of being a Chevrolet corvette its a chevivoto korvette lol.
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I'd say that's a poor analogy. Most guys can't own a real M14. So all of them commercially sold are clones. With cars there is no substituting a few parts and getting Corvette performance for half the price. remember guys, the only part on a Norinco anyone raves about is the receiver. Nobody ever swapped out an SAI trigger group for a Norinco one.
 
From what ive gathered whoever installed that barrel for him did it wrong, not torqued properly and created stress point on the receiver walls.
 
Seafury said:
I'd say that's a poor analogy. Most guys can't own a real M14. So all of them commercially sold are clones. With cars there is no substituting a few parts and getting Corvette performance for half the price. remember guys, the only part on a Norinco anyone raves about is the receiver.
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I interpreted the $100,000 version as the unavailable real M14 in the analogy, and the Honda Civic as the SAI. Maybe I read it wrong.

Seafury said:
Nobody ever swapped out an SAI trigger group for a Norinco one.
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Actually, I did exactly that just this week. I was planning on using a brand new SAI trigger group for a build my son and I are working on together, but when it arrived Wednesday and I tested it the hammer hooks had only the barest minimum contact with the sear and I didn't trust it to catch reliably under recoil, so I replaced it with the trigger group out of the shorty I just bought and reviewed - which had a much smoother and crisper pull anyway. I've got a set of USGI parts on order so I can gut the SAI group and rebuild it and maybe use it elsewhere.

Edited to add: that particular build started out as just a barelled receiver (Norc 22") and I've added a few other SAI parts to it that seem just fine (the gas cylinder, piston and plug, the barrel band, the front sight and the op-rod guide).
 
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Seafury said:
I'd say that's a poor analogy. Most guys can't own a real M14. So all of them commercially sold are clones. With cars there is no substituting a few parts and getting Corvette performance for half the price. remember guys, the only part on a Norinco anyone raves about is the receiver. Nobody ever swapped out an SAI trigger group for a Norinco one.
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not sure why you say most guys can't own a real m14?
i had a little over 50+K on tap in bank when i bought my norinco.
single with no other payments but my smaller mortgage payments and i still went with norinco, if i buy another rifle it will be a JRA not a SAI.
so next time you think norinco owners are just poor folk maybe stop looking down your nose for a minute.
for me i just couldn't understand why spend 1000-1200$ more for a base model SAI that didn't have any of the better parts they offer, and their SAI rifles wernt 1800$ they were 2100-2200, and didnt have a 18.5" shorty either.
 
I am a bit surprised that ppl are assuming that the Springfield receiver is at fault when the OP admits that he had an 18" aftermarket SEI barrel installed from SEI (Post #17 on P.2). This was not a stock rifle that he was shooting but something that may have been smithed improperly. It is pretty cool that SAI is even willing to look at the rifle despite the aftermarket work. Gives me confidence that they are a stand up company. I am curious to see what the OP gets from SEI, SAI or Federal because somebody is responsible for that wrecked receiver. I'm just glad he didn't get killed.
 
PitBull1973 said:
Let's get it straight here. Don't care or bash if someone decides to buy a norc. Of course there are rare occurrences with everything out there that's man made that's life. You are a big fan of norcs and that's good , because a lot of people can learn from you. But once again you are bashing SA because of a gun that broke in half . Did you inspect it? NO. Many have said with much more expierence than you that it's a rare occurrence and how many rifles did they sell?. I'm not trying to be a D!ck but I won't buy a new car knowing that it needs to have work done so it runs right and I leave it at that. Again it's great to hear your advice and keep it coming but I think you should be alittle more professional . Cheers
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My professionalism shouldn't be of concern.
What should be of concern is that 'one' of the top guys in the game in Canada, who has examined and built Norincos, LRB's , SAI and USGI hybrids has repeated the same message... Soley based on hands on experience.
I'm a fan of the platform, not a norinco 'fan boy'
It's time folks started to really understand why I type what I type.
2000 dollar + rifles are still showing QC and dimension issues that springfield should be catching as they build each rifle AND proof test it. Garbage rifles shouldn't make it out the door... But they are.
Norincos are what they are and we have come to accept that from a 500 ballpark rifle.

I don't sneer down my nose at you guys who choose to by SAI rifles. In fact I pray and hope you get a good one that doesn't cause you injury or months waiting in the lifetime warranty line over issues that SAI has had for years and still let's out the door.
One day you guys will realize that my comments have your best interests in mind.... And my bias means nothing more than just that.
 
Glock4ever said:
I am a bit surprised that ppl are assuming that the Springfield receiver is at fault when the OP admits that he had an 18" aftermarket SEI barrel installed from SEI (Post #17 on P.2). This was not a stock rifle that he was shooting but something that may have been smithed improperly. It is pretty cool that SAI is even willing to look at the rifle despite the aftermarket work. Gives me confidence that they are a stand up company. I am curious to see what the OP gets from SEI, SAI or Federal because somebody is responsible for that wrecked receiver. I'm just glad he didn't get killed.
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also ive seen 45acp and others talk about bolt lug / receiver contact in SAI m14's more than once and then this happens with one of their receivers.
Thats probably why people are assuming it was something related to that recurring issue.
 
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